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> The other issue is that this further incentivizes companies to off-shore their support Why is this a problem? Why are we so attached to the notion that a rol

by cik 5mo ago

> The other issue is that this further incentivizes companies to off-shore their support Why is this a problem? Why are we so attached to the notion that a role must be completed from a specific jurisdiction (outside of regulatory). If you believe in remote work, then why should it matter from where that work is delivered? Plenty of small companies offshore early support, to reduce costs. In many cases this provides jobs in economies that otherwise doesn't have them, and can lead to a tech industry that in turn hires globally. There are several economies that received a boost this way, and now benefit. I don't see the problem. Yes, there may be uncomfortable shuffling of roles, layoffs,etc. But, as a believer in globalization, this will just happen. Yes, it will impact me as well.

dlenski 5mo ago
> If you believe in remote work, then why should it matter from where that work is delivered? Okay, well that's easy then. In general I am highly concerned about the negative social and productivity costs of remote work, in industries ranging from tech support to software development to medicine.
charcircuit 5mo ago
>Why is this a problem? Because it means that I will have to interact with foreigners instead of my own people. It means that a job that my people could have done gets sent off to the lowest bidder in an economy far away. It means that I get a lower quality service as I believe my people can do it better. >Why are we so attached to the notion that a role must be completed from a specific jurisdiction (outside of regulatory). Because in group preference along with wanting to win and be the best are human nature. >If you believe in remote work, then why should it matter from where that work is delivered? There is a difference between the location a job is done and who is doing the job. If I remote work from China, I am still American. Changing my location on planet earth didn't change who I am, nor does it change my values and work ethic. >In many cases this provides jobs in economies that otherwise doesn't have them, and can lead to a tech industry that in turn hires globally. Which I see as a bad thing as it means money and jobs that could have gone to my own country are leaving and being sent to another. I would rather have local companies invest in local AI than to hire foreigners. >There are several economies that received a boost this way, and now benefit. I would rather boost my own economy than someone else's.
- intended 5mo ago
  First off, I get the nationalist instinct. I don’t think it’s bad per se. However, it’s nearly the same global economy. At some point those issues in faraway places are the foreign policy issues in your localities. This is not a defense or argument in favor of hollowing out local economies. Sadly, cost arbitrage will remain a thing. One underused avenue to make it a more even playing field, is to exports labour and safety standards from the developed world. Arbitrage built from factories and sweat shops which have suicide nets should be anathema. This type of enforcement is well within the realms of possibility. FDA inspectors travel to the source factories in other countries to ensure they are compliant.
  - charcircuit 5mo ago
    I don't want an even playing field. I want my country to have the advantage. It shouldn't come down to a 50/50 coin toss whether to offshore or not because they are seen as equally expensive. I also don't think it would play out that well. If you are offshoring to country B but forced to use a factory following standards from country A you aren't going to be able to compete against a company from Country B using the best factories from country B. In my view you should either try and beat them at their own game by using equivalent factories or you should not outsource and use innovation to come up with a more efficient factory. Purposefully choosing an inefficient option leads to an inefficient economy.
    - close04 5mo ago
      > they are seen as equally expensive They go off shore because they are less expensive. Gotta love that switch to a passive voice whenever you're flagging your own guilt. You didn't see, things are seen. You see them as less expensive, you want to pay less and less for every product and every service. If your provider charges you 25-50% extra per month because services are delivered locally, you just switch to the cheaper one. Most nationalists are more big mouth than standing by their stated values.
    - clapthewind 5mo ago
      Putting it politely, I think you may have xenophobic tendency. And for all your buster, I suggest you work on having a more sane world view.
modo_mario 5mo ago
It's wage suppression. Plain and simple. And workers that don't get what you're on about because they only have the script for a regular customers with regular issues become often incredibly frustrating when you have a more complicated issue that would be immediately resolved by someone at a helpdesk locally that immediately knows what internal niche department and person you should be redirected to.

by cik 5mo ago

dlenski 5mo ago

> If you believe in remote work, then why should it matter from where that work is delivered? Okay, well that's easy then. In general I am highly concerned about the negative social and productivity costs of remote work, in industries ranging from tech support to software development to medicine.

charcircuit 5mo ago

>Why is this a problem? Because it means that I will have to interact with foreigners instead of my own people. It means that a job that my people could have done gets sent off to the lowest bidder in an economy far away. It means that I get a lower quality service as I believe my people can do it better. >Why are we so attached to the notion that a role must be completed from a specific jurisdiction (outside of regulatory). Because in group preference along with wanting to win and be the best are human nature. >If you believe in remote work, then why should it matter from where that work is delivered? There is a difference between the location a job is done and who is doing the job. If I remote work from China, I am still American. Changing my location on planet earth didn't change who I am, nor does it change my values and work ethic. >In many cases this provides jobs in economies that otherwise doesn't have them, and can lead to a tech industry that in turn hires globally. Which I see as a bad thing as it means money and jobs that could have gone to my own country are leaving and being sent to another. I would rather have local companies invest in local AI than to hire foreigners. >There are several economies that received a boost this way, and now benefit. I would rather boost my own economy than someone else's.

intended 5mo ago
First off, I get the nationalist instinct. I don’t think it’s bad per se. However, it’s nearly the same global economy. At some point those issues in faraway places are the foreign policy issues in your localities. This is not a defense or argument in favor of hollowing out local economies. Sadly, cost arbitrage will remain a thing. One underused avenue to make it a more even playing field, is to exports labour and safety standards from the developed world. Arbitrage built from factories and sweat shops which have suicide nets should be anathema. This type of enforcement is well within the realms of possibility. FDA inspectors travel to the source factories in other countries to ensure they are compliant.
- charcircuit 5mo ago
  I don't want an even playing field. I want my country to have the advantage. It shouldn't come down to a 50/50 coin toss whether to offshore or not because they are seen as equally expensive. I also don't think it would play out that well. If you are offshoring to country B but forced to use a factory following standards from country A you aren't going to be able to compete against a company from Country B using the best factories from country B. In my view you should either try and beat them at their own game by using equivalent factories or you should not outsource and use innovation to come up with a more efficient factory. Purposefully choosing an inefficient option leads to an inefficient economy.
  - close04 5mo ago
    > they are seen as equally expensive They go off shore because they are less expensive. Gotta love that switch to a passive voice whenever you're flagging your own guilt. You didn't see, things are seen. You see them as less expensive, you want to pay less and less for every product and every service. If your provider charges you 25-50% extra per month because services are delivered locally, you just switch to the cheaper one. Most nationalists are more big mouth than standing by their stated values.
  - clapthewind 5mo ago
    Putting it politely, I think you may have xenophobic tendency. And for all your buster, I suggest you work on having a more sane world view.

modo_mario 5mo ago

It's wage suppression. Plain and simple. And workers that don't get what you're on about because they only have the script for a regular customers with regular issues become often incredibly frustrating when you have a more complicated issue that would be immediately resolved by someone at a helpdesk locally that immediately knows what internal niche department and person you should be redirected to.