3 ms·

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere just hit a 'depressing' new record

31 points by rolph 5mo ago

antibull 5mo ago
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leonidasrup 5mo ago
All this new scalable renewable energy sources such as solar and wind (biomass is not scalable and hydro, geothermal depend on geology) are not cheap enough to compete with fossil fuels for industrial applications. Energy not electricity. 1 GJ of heat from coal is still cheaper than 1 GJ of electicity from solar, especially when needed 24/7. There many countries in the global south with large populations which want to grow and don't have enough energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_co... We need very cheap nuclear power not only for electricity, but also for heating, water desalination, hydrogen production, CO2 capture.
- hdgvhicv 5mo ago
  Nuclear costs far more per kWh than solar/Wind plus storage Yes we need lots more electric. Nuclear isn’t the answer.
  - citrin_ru 5mo ago
    Nuclear is an answer along with other sources. Opposition to nuclear by the Green Party in the UK is a self-sabotage IMHO. They may argue how limited government subsidies should be allocated but outright opposition to nuclear energy is just stupid to me.
  - leonidasrup 5mo ago
    Lets look at price of thermal coal in China https://www.sunsirs.com/uk/prodetail-369.html https://www.sunsirs.com/uk/prodetail-369.html 830 RMB/ton for a coal with calorific value: 5500 kcal/kg This gives thermal cost of heat 5 USD/GJ . "The Middle East and Africa achieved the lowest levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) among regions in 2025, with an LCOE of US$37/MWh, while the LCOE of utility-scale solar PV in China reached US$27/MWh." https://www.pv-tech.org/solar-pv-retains-most-competitive-lcoe-globally-in-2025-wood-mackenzie/ https://www.pv-tech.org/solar-pv-retains-most-competitive-lc... Solar US$27/MWh can be converted to 7,5 USD/GJ. How much changes the cost when you have industrial application which needs energy 24/7 ?
- kevin061 5mo ago
  Nuclear is indeed the answer. Nuclear power is incredibly safe nowadays and it also provides kinetic inertia, something that solar and wind power lack (they are all DC based and only produce AC when using an inverter, which is wasteful too). Unfortunately I think it's already too late for nuclear. People who don't understand energy grids are voting for anti-nuclear policies, with very predictable results.
- 1attice 5mo ago
  Great, great, except climate change is driving geopolitical rupture, and a nuclear plant, as we have seen in Ukraine, is an irresistible target, for physical and digital attacks alike. That's a lot of leverage, especially when the drones and cyberattacks can be heightened by AI. The nuclear age did not survive the advent of the LLM. Ironic, as no customer needs electricity more than AI.
- tim333 5mo ago
  We've had nuclear power since the 1950s with a boom in the 60s and 70s. Since then annual carbon emissions are up 6.5x (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...) It doesn't seem to be fixing things and I suspect never will. Personally I'd go with carbon pricing and let the market sort which tech to use.
  - leonidasrup 5mo ago
    Building of new nuclear power plants effectively ended in the US and Europe in 1980s. Instead of nuclear power plants, coal power has expanded. Later after 2000 gas started to replace coal for electricity generation. So the rise in carbon emissions not suprising. Also after 2005 China started to by big player in CO2 emissions, but CO2 per capita is still lower in China then in US. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions I too would like to see carbon pricing, but in all countries, because otherwise countries not paying price on carbon would get big competetive advantage.
aaron695 5mo ago
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pjmlp 5mo ago
Yes, and all the paper straws in the world isn't going to save it, between wars, attacks on critical infrastructure and AI overlords.
znpy 5mo ago
Maybe at some point we’ll all pull our collective head out of our collective ass and will start going all in on nuclear (along side solar and wind power). It will still be late, but better late than never.
31carmichael 5mo ago
I'm so depressed.

31 points by rolph 5mo ago

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All this new scalable renewable energy sources such as solar and wind (biomass is not scalable and hydro, geothermal depend on geology) are not cheap enough to compete with fossil fuels for industrial applications. Energy not electricity. 1 GJ of heat from coal is still cheaper than 1 GJ of electicity from solar, especially when needed 24/7. There many countries in the global south with large populations which want to grow and don't have enough energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_consumption_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_co... We need very cheap nuclear power not only for electricity, but also for heating, water desalination, hydrogen production, CO2 capture.

hdgvhicv 5mo ago
Nuclear costs far more per kWh than solar/Wind plus storage Yes we need lots more electric. Nuclear isn’t the answer.
- citrin_ru 5mo ago
  Nuclear is an answer along with other sources. Opposition to nuclear by the Green Party in the UK is a self-sabotage IMHO. They may argue how limited government subsidies should be allocated but outright opposition to nuclear energy is just stupid to me.
- leonidasrup 5mo ago
  Lets look at price of thermal coal in China https://www.sunsirs.com/uk/prodetail-369.html https://www.sunsirs.com/uk/prodetail-369.html 830 RMB/ton for a coal with calorific value: 5500 kcal/kg This gives thermal cost of heat 5 USD/GJ . "The Middle East and Africa achieved the lowest levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) among regions in 2025, with an LCOE of US$37/MWh, while the LCOE of utility-scale solar PV in China reached US$27/MWh." https://www.pv-tech.org/solar-pv-retains-most-competitive-lcoe-globally-in-2025-wood-mackenzie/ https://www.pv-tech.org/solar-pv-retains-most-competitive-lc... Solar US$27/MWh can be converted to 7,5 USD/GJ. How much changes the cost when you have industrial application which needs energy 24/7 ?
kevin061 5mo ago
Nuclear is indeed the answer. Nuclear power is incredibly safe nowadays and it also provides kinetic inertia, something that solar and wind power lack (they are all DC based and only produce AC when using an inverter, which is wasteful too). Unfortunately I think it's already too late for nuclear. People who don't understand energy grids are voting for anti-nuclear policies, with very predictable results.
1attice 5mo ago
Great, great, except climate change is driving geopolitical rupture, and a nuclear plant, as we have seen in Ukraine, is an irresistible target, for physical and digital attacks alike. That's a lot of leverage, especially when the drones and cyberattacks can be heightened by AI. The nuclear age did not survive the advent of the LLM. Ironic, as no customer needs electricity more than AI.
tim333 5mo ago
We've had nuclear power since the 1950s with a boom in the 60s and 70s. Since then annual carbon emissions are up 6.5x (https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?country=~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...) It doesn't seem to be fixing things and I suspect never will. Personally I'd go with carbon pricing and let the market sort which tech to use.
- leonidasrup 5mo ago
  Building of new nuclear power plants effectively ended in the US and Europe in 1980s. Instead of nuclear power plants, coal power has expanded. Later after 2000 gas started to replace coal for electricity generation. So the rise in carbon emissions not suprising. Also after 2005 China started to by big player in CO2 emissions, but CO2 per capita is still lower in China then in US. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions I too would like to see carbon pricing, but in all countries, because otherwise countries not paying price on carbon would get big competetive advantage.

aaron695 5mo ago

[dead]

pjmlp 5mo ago

Yes, and all the paper straws in the world isn't going to save it, between wars, attacks on critical infrastructure and AI overlords.

znpy 5mo ago

Maybe at some point we’ll all pull our collective head out of our collective ass and will start going all in on nuclear (along side solar and wind power). It will still be late, but better late than never.

31carmichael 5mo ago

I'm so depressed.