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I find it grating that so many AI boosters try to frame pushing back against the AI industry as a sudden about-face for everyone that spent the last 20 years pu

I find it grating that so many AI boosters try to frame pushing back against the AI industry as a sudden about-face for everyone that spent the last 20 years pushing back against the copyright industry. I’m also in favor of decriminalizing or legalizing small amounts of pot for personal use. That doesn’t mean I’m behind industrialized narcotic production on such a huge scale that it that it starts to distort the economy, and companies looking for new ways to add methamphetamine to every goddamn product.

2ndorderthought 6mo ago
Speaking of ai and meth, have you seen videos of the palantir CEO Alex karp? Dude looks like he's regularly getting the same meth shots Hitler used to get. But I hear you. One of my biggest tells that someone can't be reasoned with is when they resort to whataboutism without any consideration for how 2 situations can actually be different even if there is some commonality. It's a powerful bad faith argument technique. When that style of argument comes up I nod my head and walk away. Some people are just doomed.
- chungusamongus 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
    I am not s copyright maximalist, but I would tell you be careful of a world where copyright and IP is meaningless. Might as well let any other country/company one shot your entire industry.
    - chungusamongus 6mo ago
      Slippery slope, false dilemma, etc. What other fallacies do you have in your utility belt, batman?
      - 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
        How did you know I was Bruce wayne?
        malfist 6mo ago
        Where's my goddamn electric car Bruce?
        2ndorderthought 6mo ago
        BYD sells them for super cheap.
dfxm12 6mo ago
It would be disingenuous framing because the argument against copyright stems from a belief that information should be free. Meta does not do things in this spirit. There's no about face needed...
- AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
  > It would be disingenuous framing because the argument against copyright stems from a belief that information should be free. Meta does not do things in this spirit. Don't they? They release the llama model weights, they do things like this: https://www.opencompute.org/wiki/Open_Rack/SpecsAndDesigns https://www.opencompute.org/wiki/Open_Rack/SpecsAndDesigns They also make significant contributions to Linux and are the originators of popular open source projects like zstd and React. They make their money from selling ads, not selling licenses.
  - xigoi 6mo ago
    They only released the weights because someone leaked them.
    - AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
      Someone leaked the llama 1 weights before they were released. That doesn't explain why they would release the subsequent versions except that they wanted to.
protocolture 6mo ago
>I find it grating that so many AI boosters try to frame pushing back against the AI industry as a sudden about-face for everyone that spent the last 20 years pushing back against the copyright industry. What do you think the outcome of tightening fair use is going to be? Do you think its going to be most effectual against these big evil AI companies we are meant to fear? Or is it going to end up putting more individual creators on the end of Disneys pitchforks? Like if you support creating a gun to kill a monster, that's great. But you need to understand that weapons rarely only target the person you want them to. And its unlikely that any bill that specifically targets a certain size or profit margin is going to make it all the way into law without being generalised to the approval of large IP holders. Its much much (much) better to look at this as an opportunity to erode IP laws for everyone, than to make them worse and hope that your particular enemies are the only ones that are affected. >That doesn’t mean I’m behind industrialized narcotic production on such a huge scale that it that it starts to distort the economy, and companies looking for new ways to add methamphetamine to every goddamn product. Thats such a non sequitur. This isnt a weed legalisation argument, its "Do we make IP worse for everyone, because you dont like some people benefiting from fair use".
- citadel_melon 6mo ago
  One could imagine a different legal standards for recreational, research, and commercial uses.
  - warkdarrior 6mo ago
    > One could imagine a different legal standards for recreational, research, and commercial uses. Meta used allegedly stolen copyrighted materials to train a model they shared for free with the whole world. Is this a recreational use?
    - watwut 6mo ago
      No it is not recreational use. And no, they are not freely sharing it. It is use to build a monopoly, make hones competition impossible and plan charge as much possible on it. It is the same playbook everytime. We dont have to be naive and pretend meta is doing something for other peoples benefit.
butlike 6mo ago
Tell me more about these methamphetamine products. Inquiring minds would like to know!

2ndorderthought 6mo ago

Speaking of ai and meth, have you seen videos of the palantir CEO Alex karp? Dude looks like he's regularly getting the same meth shots Hitler used to get. But I hear you. One of my biggest tells that someone can't be reasoned with is when they resort to whataboutism without any consideration for how 2 situations can actually be different even if there is some commonality. It's a powerful bad faith argument technique. When that style of argument comes up I nod my head and walk away. Some people are just doomed.

chungusamongus 6mo ago
[flagged]
- 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
  I am not s copyright maximalist, but I would tell you be careful of a world where copyright and IP is meaningless. Might as well let any other country/company one shot your entire industry.
  - chungusamongus 6mo ago
    Slippery slope, false dilemma, etc. What other fallacies do you have in your utility belt, batman?
    - 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
      How did you know I was Bruce wayne?
      - malfist 6mo ago
        Where's my goddamn electric car Bruce?
        2ndorderthought 6mo ago
        BYD sells them for super cheap.

dfxm12 6mo ago

It would be disingenuous framing because the argument against copyright stems from a belief that information should be free. Meta does not do things in this spirit. There's no about face needed...

AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
> It would be disingenuous framing because the argument against copyright stems from a belief that information should be free. Meta does not do things in this spirit. Don't they? They release the llama model weights, they do things like this: https://www.opencompute.org/wiki/Open_Rack/SpecsAndDesigns https://www.opencompute.org/wiki/Open_Rack/SpecsAndDesigns They also make significant contributions to Linux and are the originators of popular open source projects like zstd and React. They make their money from selling ads, not selling licenses.
- xigoi 6mo ago
  They only released the weights because someone leaked them.
  - AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
    Someone leaked the llama 1 weights before they were released. That doesn't explain why they would release the subsequent versions except that they wanted to.

protocolture 6mo ago

>I find it grating that so many AI boosters try to frame pushing back against the AI industry as a sudden about-face for everyone that spent the last 20 years pushing back against the copyright industry. What do you think the outcome of tightening fair use is going to be? Do you think its going to be most effectual against these big evil AI companies we are meant to fear? Or is it going to end up putting more individual creators on the end of Disneys pitchforks? Like if you support creating a gun to kill a monster, that's great. But you need to understand that weapons rarely only target the person you want them to. And its unlikely that any bill that specifically targets a certain size or profit margin is going to make it all the way into law without being generalised to the approval of large IP holders. Its much much (much) better to look at this as an opportunity to erode IP laws for everyone, than to make them worse and hope that your particular enemies are the only ones that are affected. >That doesn’t mean I’m behind industrialized narcotic production on such a huge scale that it that it starts to distort the economy, and companies looking for new ways to add methamphetamine to every goddamn product. Thats such a non sequitur. This isnt a weed legalisation argument, its "Do we make IP worse for everyone, because you dont like some people benefiting from fair use".

citadel_melon 6mo ago
One could imagine a different legal standards for recreational, research, and commercial uses.
- warkdarrior 6mo ago
  > One could imagine a different legal standards for recreational, research, and commercial uses. Meta used allegedly stolen copyrighted materials to train a model they shared for free with the whole world. Is this a recreational use?
  - watwut 6mo ago
    No it is not recreational use. And no, they are not freely sharing it. It is use to build a monopoly, make hones competition impossible and plan charge as much possible on it. It is the same playbook everytime. We dont have to be naive and pretend meta is doing something for other peoples benefit.

butlike 6mo ago

Tell me more about these methamphetamine products. Inquiring minds would like to know!