7 ms·

What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! I'll repeat that even though I think we

• corporalagumbo 14y ago
  Not to mention that he's complaining about the boxed-in apps and the first apps available from the Windows Store. That's like complaining about the first-generation games on a console being boring. Which is absolutely retarded. First-generation games are always a disappoinment - then a year or two passes and holy shit so many cool games. So let's just see how things shape up now that Microsoft has laid the foundation and the devs start to experiment.
  • M4v3R 14y ago
    Many first-generation games were fantastic. Take Super Mario 64 for N64 for example, or Super Mario Sunshine for GC.
    • gurkendoktor 14y ago
      In ironic contrast, iOS games have gotten worse in the last years...unless you like social insert-coin games.
  • bad_user 14y ago
    Except we are talking about Microsoft, who's core competency IS building platforms and communities of developers around those platforms. That's what they do, or at least that's what they've done until now. Is it really that hard for a company like Microsoft to find 100 software companies / developers and entice them to port 100 quality apps on their App Store, such that those apps are available when Win8 launches? Answering no to this question ignores the reality. Microsoft can do this and the fact that they didn't shows that they are losing their core competency. And let's be honest here - Microsoft is late from all perspectives. Microsoft is late in the mobile game, being a distant fourth, behind Android, iOS and even Symbian. Microsoft is also late in delivering an App Store for the desktop. Their only "innovation" is this hybrid Windows that can run on both tablets and the desktop, except for their sad reality that consumers expectations have already been set by iOS and Android to the point that consumers don't expect their mobile devices to run the same desktop apps they've been using ... and if those apps won't be optimized for Windows 8, then it's going to be a shitty experience anyway, hence why your apologetic argument is not acceptable for Microsoft.
• icelancer 14y ago
  >What bothers me about the OP though is that if you really dislike Metro so much on a desktop, you don't have to use it! This is said over and over again, and everyone has to keep reminding them that it's not about what is currently happening, but the fact that Microsoft is GOING IN THIS DIRECTION. The "Desktop" is slated for execution - just because they have it now doesn't mean it's going to exist forever. It's obvious that MS (and other companies) believe that this "power user" feature is unnecessary going forward.
  • rlu 14y ago
    I really don't agree with this and there is no arguing that it is simply conjecture at this point. I don't think Microsoft thinks that Metro apps or the metro environment do or ever will offer the same level of extremely high productivity that desktop apps and the desktop environment provide. I think we will have a much better idea of Microsoft's POV on Metro if/when they release Office apps on it. Quite simply put, if Metro Office does not have 1:1 feature parity with the desktop apps then that backs my point. If I were to bet, I would say that Metro Office will be more aligned with the web apps. I would be quite surprised if they aligned more to the full desktop clients. Why? Because the desktop is an environment suited for mouse and keyboard where you can have super high levels of productivity. Metro will not replace that as it excels in other use cases. Can you be productive with Metro? I'd argue you can. Just as productive as in the desktop? With some apps, perhaps. With others, absolutely not.
    • suresk 14y ago
      Then how do you explain the fact that the Windows App Store is metro-only? That seems to imply that either Microsoft wants to push metro-style apps in the long run, or they don't care about the app store on the desktop - I'd put my money on the former.
      • rlu 14y ago
        Well actually you can get desktop apps off of the app store. Sort of. It just redirects you to the website where you can download the software. But it is a listing nevertheless.
• Zirro 14y ago
  "So, if you're a power user and want to stay away from all of that nonsense..." But the people in the usability study were no power users. They were the intended audience. Besides, I don't think the performance issues OP describes would be appreciated by non-power users either.
  • rlu 14y ago
    Perhaps I used "power user" incorrectly. Basically what I'm getting at is that it seemed to me, perhaps incorrectly, that the person running the show told the people in the usability study to focus more on the new stuff and avoid the old. Of course this isn't strictly true as the article mentions how people got confused with "double desktops" but given the rest of the article, it just seemed like people were forced to use apps that they otherwise wouldn't have used and thus gave plenty of complaints. For example, his section on multiple windows seemed bizarre to me. Yes it is true that Metro does not support multiple windows but to say that Windows no longer supports them is simply incorrect. If a user wants to "collect, compare and choose" among multiple web pages then they can easily do that as they always have through the desktop. I think the important question here is "were they unable to find the desktop" or "were they told to only use Metro browsers"? I think we should have faith in users to choose the correct tools for the task. Forcing them to do something the arguably "incorrect" way simply to have them struggle seems to simply be a self fulfilling prophesy. And hey - I think a study proving that Metro on the desktop is less than ideal is perfectly okay. In fact I'd say I probably agree most of the time. But to label this study as Windows 8 as a whole as opposed to simply metro on a desktop I think is a little unfair.
    • Sumaso 14y ago
      I agree with you 100%. The old desktop is not gone, it still serves the purpose that it always did. Many of the arguments I find come from people forcing new users to only use the Metro style UI, which would obviously be confusing (much as my mother would have problems switch from a PC to a Mac). I'm sure people will praise windows 9 for being so much better than windows 8, even though windows 8 took all the risk and windows 9 simply applied some polish.
  • 14y ago
• simonw 14y ago
  "And then for a lot of the other complaints (e.g. hidden interface, icons that you don't think you can click) it is just a matter of time before people learn it. Then it will become a non-issue." That's not how usability works.
  • rlu 14y ago
    Is pinch to zoom obvious? Is left clicking obvious? Is ctrl alt delete obvious? Is spacebar to pause/resume video/music obvious? I'm no UEX expert but all of the above seem to be things that many people know how to do, yet would not seem immediately obvious at first. I am quite confident that "swiping in from the right to reveal charms/commands/options" will join the ranks of the above. It'll just take a few months of mass use. It's a pretty convenient gesture IMO.
    • conradfr 14y ago
      There is a LOT of people that don't even understand ctrl-c ctrl-v and go to the menu each time to do it.
      • molmalo 14y ago
        I still use Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Insert =)
    • kimmel 14y ago
      I'm no UEX expert.. Then let me enlighten you. Your ctrl-alt-delete example is poor due to the fact and this is backed up by a Bill Gates interview that that command was meant for debugging and was not supposed to ship in the final product. People started using it and they had to leave it in. Some music players do not use space for pause/resume. As for clicking and zooming, these things are so intuitive that children can learn on their own how to do these simple tasks. OLPC and other organizations air drop laptops into Africa and people who have never a seen a computer get them and teach themselves how to use it and how to read.
      • 14y ago
• fauigerzigerk 14y ago
  The "you can stay away from X" argument never really works. If something exists, it will sneak up on you one way or another, especially if it's the cool new thing. How long do you think until an app or OS feature you need isn't available on the old desktop?
• ygra 14y ago
  The problem is that you cannot escape completely. A major point is that some settings are available only from the Modern UI, some are only available from the desktop, some are there on both. But the transitions are well-hidden most of the time. Not that most users (me included) need to frequently access settings (I'm on the same stance with UAC since Vista: It's not an annoyance beyond the first day of setting up a machine), but the lack of communication where something can be found is pretty annoying at times. I understand that time and budget constraints make it hard to offer both in either mode, but that's definitely an area to improve.
• jakeonthemove 14y ago
  But you do HAVE to use it! Start computer - Metro, Open app - Metro, Search for something - Metro, Shutdown/Restart - Metro, Windows Updates - Metro, Control Panel - Metro, switch apps - Metro, and more. It's a real PITA when you get the huge goddamn Start Menu when you want to do something simple... And even if you do reduce that to a minimum (which is possible), it's still stupid - here you are working with 4 windows open on something, completely forgetting that you're on 8, you want to do some random simple operation and BAM - METRO IN YOUR FACE! :-)
  • estel 14y ago
    Is it a problem that the start menu is huge? The traditional start menu has always felt like a huge usability nightmare to me and I'm nothing but glad that it's been replaced.
    • jakeonthemove 14y ago
      In my opinion, yes, it's pretty annoying. I never work in full screen, but even if I did the objects are too big and you have to move the mouse a lot more, which is a drawback on a desktop/laptop...
    • lurkinggrue 14y ago
      Yes. I could accept usability updates but taking you away from all the other windows is just damn annoying.
• nchlswu 14y ago
  Sure, you can use Win8 without "Metro," but the live tile display still replaces the start menu. There are lots of unnecessarily buried system interactions that require using Metro.
• mark_integerdsv 14y ago
  >>I'll repeat that even though I think we all know this >>already: if you don't want to use Metro apps, you don't >>have to use Metro apps. It is really that simple. >>...then click on the "Desktop" tile... I'm sorry, clearly you don't see it this way but the irony of the above is just... Well... My ghast is flabbered.
• bluedanieru 14y ago
  Why would I want a desktop where half of the thing has poor usability and loads of bugs?