3 ms·

Fuel (diesel, specifically) in the UK is getting towards $10/gallon, so not surprising really!

by retrac98 5mo ago

washingupliquid 5mo ago
[flagged]
- oblio 5mo ago
  There are new 30k euros EVs on the marker right now.
  - sigio 5mo ago
    23k even in some markets, ok, small low range cars. But yeah, the 30k ones start getting good.
    - rsynnott 5mo ago
      The id.Polo is apparently starting at 22k GBP in the UK; the VW Polo's always been a pretty popular car (and also starts at about 22k). I'd expect those to sell very well.
  - washingupliquid 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - idiotsecant 5mo ago
      Those goalposts sure do keep moving
    - oblio 5mo ago
      Or they could buy a super cheap SH EV when their current ICE car stops working.
      - washingupliquid 5mo ago
        And if they rent or otherwise don't own a home with a driveway? In the UK with its strict electrical codes, your charger must be installed by a loiscensed electrician. So add £1k right there. Your money saving effort suddenly becomes a major inconvenience to fuel your car.
        oblio 5mo ago
        [dead]
- Doches 5mo ago
  EVs aren’t exactly new; there’s a deep, accessble secondhand market by now. I’ve been using a 2019 Nissan Leaf as a primary family car for two years now, that I picked up off Gumtree for around £3k. It’s been one of the best (little) cars I’ve ever owned. Not saying new EVs aren’t pricey, but if you want into electric on a budget (i.e. because you don’t feel like you can afford to fill up on diesel) it can absolutely be done.
  - rcxdude 5mo ago
    If you're savvy you can get a really good discount on a second-hand EV as well because people overestimate the wear on the batteries and assume a second-hand EV will have terrible range.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- rsynnott 5mo ago
  The id.Polo starts at 22k GBP. The ordinary, petrol-driven Polo also starts at 22k. You can see how massive increases in the price of petrol and diesel might influence purchasing behaviour there...
  - gib444 5mo ago
    Minor point: The id.Polo isn't released in the UK yet and prices are not confirmed. VW are not shy about price rises either I believe, so I wouldn't imagine the £21.7k figure in the media lasting more than a year if that price-point does happen. Also, my god, £22k for a petrol base Polo! That's about £4k above inflation-adjusted prices from ~15 years ago
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- kieranmaine 5mo ago
  This is a good site for seeing the differents UK models, and their prices, that are on the market or coming onto the market. These are all models under £20,000 - https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23=1&rs-pr=10000_20000&rs-er=0_500&rs-ld=0_500&rs-ac=2_23&rs-dcfc=0_400&rs-ub=10_200&rs-tw=0_3000&rs-ef=150_600&rs-sa=-1_5&rs-w=1000_3500&rs-c=0_5000&rs-y=2010_2030&s=4&p=0-10 https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23... There's also a large number of used EVs available. Here's a selection of 2024+ models between £8000-£10000 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?channel=cars&fuel-type=Electric&make=&postcode=WC1B%203DG&price-from=8000&price-to=10000&sort=price-asc&year-from=2023 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?channel=cars&fuel-ty...
- retrac98 5mo ago
  Price sensitivity doesn’t spring into existence at the point something becomes unaffordable.
- benj111 5mo ago
  You have half a point here. Diesel was traditionally the fuel of people who did high miles. Ie not the people that can't have an EV 'just in case they need to do 300 miles on a day's, because they probably legitimately are. You kind of spoil that point by pull £80k out of your arse without looking at comparable diesels though.
iso1631 5mo ago
Fuel in the UK is £1.58 a litre (£1.48 at one garage I passed today, £1.61 at another, some garages are certainly profiteering) In 2022 is was £1.89 a litre and spent most of the year over £1.60 a litre Adjusted for inflation that would be most of the year at £1.85, and a high of £2.18 a litre https://www.racfoundation.org/data/uk-pump-prices-over-time https://www.racfoundation.org/data/uk-pump-prices-over-time From 2011 to 2014 petrol was about £1.30 a litre. Adjusted for inflation terms that's £1.80-£2 a litre -- far less than current "highs". The average UK car does 8000 miles and about 45mpg (uk gallons), or about 10 miles per litre. It thus costs 800 litres, or £1,260 a year. Last year petrol was £1.35 a litre, and thus £184 a year less for the average car. Fuel is insanely cheap in the UK in historic terms, just not as cheap as it was last year.
- zdragnar 5mo ago
  Eh, last year I was paying the equivalent of £0.38 per liter over here in the States ($2 a gallon gas, $3.30 or so for diesel). "Insanely cheap" for the UK to feels really strange for those of us way over here who tend to forget how good we have it.
  - rootusrootus 5mo ago
    > tend to forget how good we have it That is an interesting perspective. We do not forget how good we have it, because we choose not to put high taxes on gasoline and diesel. Do drivers in the UK tend to forget that taxes are more than half the retail price they pay at the pump? Sometimes way over half. That is a policy decision.
    - lostlogin 5mo ago
      Depending on where this crisis goes, it’ll be interesting to see what effect it has. America seems to have a lot of large vehicles that use a lot of fuel. The UK less so. The tax will have played a part in this (how much?).
      - rootusrootus 5mo ago
theginger 5mo ago
A lot of fast chargers are over $1 per kwh so unless you have access to home charging there isn't much room for savings.
- iso1631 5mo ago
  Given that the majority of people in the uk have or can have access to home charging it's not a major problem https://www.racfoundation.org/research/mobility/still-standing-still https://www.racfoundation.org/research/mobility/still-standi... Wales – 75% of households have – or could have – off-street parking and EV charging England – 68% Scotland – 63% In London, sure, most homes don't have off-street parking and ev charging, but then only half the households in London have a car https://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-2024-car-ownership-trends-acc.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-2024-car-ownersh...
  - benj111 5mo ago
    I think you're somewhat underselling the problem. Even in Wales, 25% can't. This isn't a figure you can ignore. And that's a hypothetical, it relies on landlords playing ball etc. then there's the social issues. On the north of England we have lots of terraces built for mill workers, these aren't owned by the richest on society. So then you're in the situation of charging the poorest more for transport. And these are necessarily on towns with good transport links (think 1 bus and hour).
    - iso1631 5mo ago
      Many of those "can't" won't have cars. 20% of households in Wales have no car. Now clearly that 25% and 20% won't overlap exactly, but they will overlap a lot When 80% of cars in the UK are electric and 20% are those households who rely on public streets to store their belongings for 23 hours a day, then sure that will be a problem Given that there's only about 2 million electric cars in the UK, yet 18 million homes which can charge electric cars, that's a long way off.
- afavour 5mo ago
  But compared to the US home charging via a mains outlet is much more viable because it's 240v vs 110v. If you plug you car overnight you'll typically have enough charge to last you the next day.

Fuel (diesel, specifically) in the UK is getting towards $10/gallon, so not surprising really!

washingupliquid 5mo ago

[flagged]

oblio 5mo ago
There are new 30k euros EVs on the marker right now.
- sigio 5mo ago
  23k even in some markets, ok, small low range cars. But yeah, the 30k ones start getting good.
  - rsynnott 5mo ago
    The id.Polo is apparently starting at 22k GBP in the UK; the VW Polo's always been a pretty popular car (and also starts at about 22k). I'd expect those to sell very well.
- washingupliquid 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - idiotsecant 5mo ago
    Those goalposts sure do keep moving
  - oblio 5mo ago
    Or they could buy a super cheap SH EV when their current ICE car stops working.
    - washingupliquid 5mo ago
      And if they rent or otherwise don't own a home with a driveway? In the UK with its strict electrical codes, your charger must be installed by a loiscensed electrician. So add £1k right there. Your money saving effort suddenly becomes a major inconvenience to fuel your car.
      - oblio 5mo ago
        [dead]
Doches 5mo ago
EVs aren’t exactly new; there’s a deep, accessble secondhand market by now. I’ve been using a 2019 Nissan Leaf as a primary family car for two years now, that I picked up off Gumtree for around £3k. It’s been one of the best (little) cars I’ve ever owned. Not saying new EVs aren’t pricey, but if you want into electric on a budget (i.e. because you don’t feel like you can afford to fill up on diesel) it can absolutely be done.
- rcxdude 5mo ago
  If you're savvy you can get a really good discount on a second-hand EV as well because people overestimate the wear on the batteries and assume a second-hand EV will have terrible range.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
rsynnott 5mo ago
The id.Polo starts at 22k GBP. The ordinary, petrol-driven Polo also starts at 22k. You can see how massive increases in the price of petrol and diesel might influence purchasing behaviour there...
- gib444 5mo ago
  Minor point: The id.Polo isn't released in the UK yet and prices are not confirmed. VW are not shy about price rises either I believe, so I wouldn't imagine the £21.7k figure in the media lasting more than a year if that price-point does happen. Also, my god, £22k for a petrol base Polo! That's about £4k above inflation-adjusted prices from ~15 years ago
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
kieranmaine 5mo ago
This is a good site for seeing the differents UK models, and their prices, that are on the market or coming onto the market. These are all models under £20,000 - https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23=1&rs-pr=10000_20000&rs-er=0_500&rs-ld=0_500&rs-ac=2_23&rs-dcfc=0_400&rs-ub=10_200&rs-tw=0_3000&rs-ef=150_600&rs-sa=-1_5&rs-w=1000_3500&rs-c=0_5000&rs-y=2010_2030&s=4&p=0-10 https://ev-database.org/uk/#group=vehicle-group&av-1=1&av-23... There's also a large number of used EVs available. Here's a selection of 2024+ models between £8000-£10000 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?channel=cars&fuel-type=Electric&make=&postcode=WC1B%203DG&price-from=8000&price-to=10000&sort=price-asc&year-from=2023 https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?channel=cars&fuel-ty...
retrac98 5mo ago
Price sensitivity doesn’t spring into existence at the point something becomes unaffordable.
benj111 5mo ago
You have half a point here. Diesel was traditionally the fuel of people who did high miles. Ie not the people that can't have an EV 'just in case they need to do 300 miles on a day's, because they probably legitimately are. You kind of spoil that point by pull £80k out of your arse without looking at comparable diesels though.

iso1631 5mo ago

Fuel in the UK is £1.58 a litre (£1.48 at one garage I passed today, £1.61 at another, some garages are certainly profiteering) In 2022 is was £1.89 a litre and spent most of the year over £1.60 a litre Adjusted for inflation that would be most of the year at £1.85, and a high of £2.18 a litre https://www.racfoundation.org/data/uk-pump-prices-over-time https://www.racfoundation.org/data/uk-pump-prices-over-time From 2011 to 2014 petrol was about £1.30 a litre. Adjusted for inflation terms that's £1.80-£2 a litre -- far less than current "highs". The average UK car does 8000 miles and about 45mpg (uk gallons), or about 10 miles per litre. It thus costs 800 litres, or £1,260 a year. Last year petrol was £1.35 a litre, and thus £184 a year less for the average car. Fuel is insanely cheap in the UK in historic terms, just not as cheap as it was last year.

zdragnar 5mo ago
Eh, last year I was paying the equivalent of £0.38 per liter over here in the States ($2 a gallon gas, $3.30 or so for diesel). "Insanely cheap" for the UK to feels really strange for those of us way over here who tend to forget how good we have it.
- rootusrootus 5mo ago
  > tend to forget how good we have it That is an interesting perspective. We do not forget how good we have it, because we choose not to put high taxes on gasoline and diesel. Do drivers in the UK tend to forget that taxes are more than half the retail price they pay at the pump? Sometimes way over half. That is a policy decision.
  - lostlogin 5mo ago
    Depending on where this crisis goes, it’ll be interesting to see what effect it has. America seems to have a lot of large vehicles that use a lot of fuel. The UK less so. The tax will have played a part in this (how much?).
    - rootusrootus 5mo ago

theginger 5mo ago

A lot of fast chargers are over $1 per kwh so unless you have access to home charging there isn't much room for savings.

iso1631 5mo ago
Given that the majority of people in the uk have or can have access to home charging it's not a major problem https://www.racfoundation.org/research/mobility/still-standing-still https://www.racfoundation.org/research/mobility/still-standi... Wales – 75% of households have – or could have – off-street parking and EV charging England – 68% Scotland – 63% In London, sure, most homes don't have off-street parking and ev charging, but then only half the households in London have a car https://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-2024-car-ownership-trends-acc.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-2024-car-ownersh...
- benj111 5mo ago
  I think you're somewhat underselling the problem. Even in Wales, 25% can't. This isn't a figure you can ignore. And that's a hypothetical, it relies on landlords playing ball etc. then there's the social issues. On the north of England we have lots of terraces built for mill workers, these aren't owned by the richest on society. So then you're in the situation of charging the poorest more for transport. And these are necessarily on towns with good transport links (think 1 bus and hour).
  - iso1631 5mo ago
    Many of those "can't" won't have cars. 20% of households in Wales have no car. Now clearly that 25% and 20% won't overlap exactly, but they will overlap a lot When 80% of cars in the UK are electric and 20% are those households who rely on public streets to store their belongings for 23 hours a day, then sure that will be a problem Given that there's only about 2 million electric cars in the UK, yet 18 million homes which can charge electric cars, that's a long way off.
afavour 5mo ago
But compared to the US home charging via a mains outlet is much more viable because it's 240v vs 110v. If you plug you car overnight you'll typically have enough charge to last you the next day.