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What do you mean you "disagree"? I pay for the electricity I use and I use it however I want. Instead of trying to control other people, why can't you start wi

What do you mean you "disagree"? I pay for the electricity I use and I use it however I want. Instead of trying to control other people, why can't you start with yourself? Throw away your phone/computer. Go live in a small hut. Practice what you preach.

vrganj 6mo ago
You read what I wrote, you just chose not to engage with it and went into an ideological creed instead. You may pay for it, but I and the rest of the planet incur the cost. I can go live the life of a hermit and the above will still be true. Your electricity use puts more pollution into our air. It burns our forests. It kills species we all depend on. No man is an island. Your actions affect others. Just paying your indulgences does not make that basic fact away.
- frozenseven 6mo ago
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  - vrganj 6mo ago
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    - frozenseven 6mo ago
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      - vrganj 6mo ago
        Still no engagement with actual arguments brought up several posts ago at this point. Still more attempts at derailment. Speaks for itself. I shall leave it at this then.
        frozenseven 6mo ago
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        vrganj 6mo ago
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        frozenseven 6mo ago
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        vrganj 6mo ago
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        frozenseven 6mo ago
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        vrganj 6mo ago
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        frozenseven 6mo ago
        >until we coerce the more repugnant parts of society Go away, troll.
        vrganj 6mo ago
        You will notice I let you state your views without going absolutely deranged and resorting to ad-hominems. Why can I not state my philosophical positions without you absolutely freaking out? If you disagree, you should be able to articulate why. But you don't. Why? Is it narrow-mindedness? Insecurity? Fear of debate? A nagging feeling I might be right and it would absolutely destroy your identity to admit so?
dml2135 6mo ago
You are not paying for the total cost of the electricity you use. You pay for a portion of it, in money. The other portion of it is belched up into the atmosphere for future generations to pay. You are incurring debt and forcing it upon others.
- frozenseven 6mo ago
  >You are incurring debt and forcing it upon others. You seem to have no problem whatsoever with using electricity yourself. So when do you get to tell me (or anyone else) how to live? And when does it stop? Btw, this is all bizarrely dramatic since we were talking about small local models anyway. >future generations Yeah, and some will also say (using the same arguments) that having children is harmful to the planet and we need "measures" to limit that too.
  - vrganj 6mo ago
    Why do you get to tell me (or anyone else) how to live? Why do you get to decide that burning my forest is acceptable?
    - frozenseven 6mo ago
      Not interested, go away.
  - dml2135 6mo ago
    I’m not telling you to do one thing or another. I’m taking issue with your argument that because you pay an electric bill, it follows that you can do whatever you want. That does not follow logically for me. As humans we disagree about many things, but we generally agree that things that we do often affect others, so one way or another, we need to come together and decide which things are agreed to be acceptable and which things are not.
    - frozenseven 5mo ago
      And I'm not inclined to entertain this nonsense, not even as a hypothetical. I'm not giving up on my most basic and fundamental rights, doubly so when these draconian restrictions won't apply to the people who want to impose them.

vrganj 6mo ago

You read what I wrote, you just chose not to engage with it and went into an ideological creed instead. You may pay for it, but I and the rest of the planet incur the cost. I can go live the life of a hermit and the above will still be true. Your electricity use puts more pollution into our air. It burns our forests. It kills species we all depend on. No man is an island. Your actions affect others. Just paying your indulgences does not make that basic fact away.

frozenseven 6mo ago
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- vrganj 6mo ago
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  - frozenseven 6mo ago
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    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - vrganj 6mo ago
      Still no engagement with actual arguments brought up several posts ago at this point. Still more attempts at derailment. Speaks for itself. I shall leave it at this then.
      - frozenseven 6mo ago
        [flagged]
        vrganj 6mo ago
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        frozenseven 6mo ago
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        vrganj 6mo ago
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        frozenseven 6mo ago
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        vrganj 6mo ago
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        frozenseven 6mo ago
        >until we coerce the more repugnant parts of society Go away, troll.
        vrganj 6mo ago
        You will notice I let you state your views without going absolutely deranged and resorting to ad-hominems. Why can I not state my philosophical positions without you absolutely freaking out? If you disagree, you should be able to articulate why. But you don't. Why? Is it narrow-mindedness? Insecurity? Fear of debate? A nagging feeling I might be right and it would absolutely destroy your identity to admit so?

dml2135 6mo ago

You are not paying for the total cost of the electricity you use. You pay for a portion of it, in money. The other portion of it is belched up into the atmosphere for future generations to pay. You are incurring debt and forcing it upon others.

frozenseven 6mo ago
>You are incurring debt and forcing it upon others. You seem to have no problem whatsoever with using electricity yourself. So when do you get to tell me (or anyone else) how to live? And when does it stop? Btw, this is all bizarrely dramatic since we were talking about small local models anyway. >future generations Yeah, and some will also say (using the same arguments) that having children is harmful to the planet and we need "measures" to limit that too.
- vrganj 6mo ago
  Why do you get to tell me (or anyone else) how to live? Why do you get to decide that burning my forest is acceptable?
  - frozenseven 6mo ago
    Not interested, go away.
- dml2135 6mo ago
  I’m not telling you to do one thing or another. I’m taking issue with your argument that because you pay an electric bill, it follows that you can do whatever you want. That does not follow logically for me. As humans we disagree about many things, but we generally agree that things that we do often affect others, so one way or another, we need to come together and decide which things are agreed to be acceptable and which things are not.
  - frozenseven 5mo ago
    And I'm not inclined to entertain this nonsense, not even as a hypothetical. I'm not giving up on my most basic and fundamental rights, doubly so when these draconian restrictions won't apply to the people who want to impose them.