3 ms·

I'm not OP, but the whole podman compose topic gets quite confusing, as initially Podman didn't seem to know what they were trying to do. I've given some more c

by figmert 5mo ago

I'm not OP, but the whole podman compose topic gets quite confusing, as initially Podman didn't seem to know what they were trying to do. I've given some more context around it in previous comments. You shouldn't be using podman compose. It's flimsy and doesn't work very well (at least it was last time I used it prior to Podman v3), and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have Red Hat's direct support. Instead, activate Podman's Docker API compatibility socket, and simply set your `DOCKER_HOST` env var to that socket, and from there you can use your general docker client commands such as `docker`, `docker compose` and anything else that uses the Docker API. There are very few things that don't work with this, and the few things that don't are advanced setups. For what it's worth, podman has also a thin wrapper (podman compose) which executes `docker-compose` or the old `podman-compose`. The docs should explain which it picks. Note: - `podman-compose` is an early attempt at remaking `docker-compose` v1 but for Podman. This used parsed the compose config and converts them to podman commands, and executes it. - Later Podman wrote a Docker compatible socket instead, which can work with most docker clis that accept a `DOCKER_HOST` argument, including `docker` and `docker-compose` (both v1 and v2) - `podman compose` is a thin wrapper that automatically selects `docker-compose` or `podman-compose` depending on which is installed. Generally all you need is podman, docker-compose (the v2 binary), and that's it. From there you can use `podman` and/or `podman compose`.

pydry 5mo ago
One of the nastiest aspects of migrating from docker to podman really is "what to do about docker compose?" coz there are three wildly divergent ways to answer that all of which really suck under certain specific circumstances. Im no fan of docker and podman by itself is a step up but orchestration headaches are enough to ruin that.
- PxldLtd 5mo ago
  This is what stopped me from picking up Podman more, all our devs use Docker and have been writing compose files for years now. When the response at the time was "you're using Podman wrong, Quadlets are the hot stuff now" it just felt like too big a risk and commitment to jump to at the time. Have things settled more? Getting away from Docker is a bigger priority nowadays for us.
  - pydry 5mo ago
    podman compose has shifted from "basically never works" to "if an existing YAML isnt too complex it works" but it's not a drop in replacement yet. i also want to stay the hell away from quadlets or any other software which tries to make me use systemd more.
- figmert 5mo ago
  > "what to do about docker compose?" I don't understand what you're asking here. The answer to that is probably nothing. That is unless you want: - systemd to manage your containers - You want to use K8s primitives (which are mostly compatible) I'm unsure what the 3rd method is you're talking about. The nice thing about Podman's compose API is you don't have to change anything (mostly). You can point all your docker tooling to Podman's socket, and it'll (mostly) magically work.
  - pydry 5mo ago
    the three options are: * use systemd, red hat's favorite kitchen sink for handling everything from setting up sound services to mounting your home dir to logging so why not this too i guess. * docker compose where i have to run a whole separate podman service to lie to docker compose about not actually being docker. * podman compose which would be the obvious solution if it didnt just plain suck.
    - stryan 5mo ago
      > * use systemd, red hat's favorite kitchen sink for handling everything Systemd is a tool for managing services. Containers are services. Why require an entirely separate bespoke service manager when you're already running one? > * docker compose where i have to run a whole separate podman service to lie to docker compose about not actually being docker. This is the same system state as using docker compose with docker: you have a client program speaking to a backing daemon. Only difference here is the Podman service, being daemonless, only runs when needed (assuming you're setting up things the documented way by enabling the podman socket). > * podman compose which would be the obvious solution if it didnt just plain suck. Yeah I haven't had the best luck with it either. But part of the reason it's languished is that it makes more sense to just reimplement the Compose spec on the backend rather than re-invent the wheel and create a new compose client as well. There's also the fourth option of writing Kubernetes yaml and applying that with `podman kube play`. Honestly this is probably closer to being the podman equivalent of docker compose but since it involves writing The Bad YAML (kubernetes) rather than The Good YAML (compose) most people don't use it.

by figmert 5mo ago

pydry 5mo ago

One of the nastiest aspects of migrating from docker to podman really is "what to do about docker compose?" coz there are three wildly divergent ways to answer that all of which really suck under certain specific circumstances. Im no fan of docker and podman by itself is a step up but orchestration headaches are enough to ruin that.

PxldLtd 5mo ago
This is what stopped me from picking up Podman more, all our devs use Docker and have been writing compose files for years now. When the response at the time was "you're using Podman wrong, Quadlets are the hot stuff now" it just felt like too big a risk and commitment to jump to at the time. Have things settled more? Getting away from Docker is a bigger priority nowadays for us.
- pydry 5mo ago
  podman compose has shifted from "basically never works" to "if an existing YAML isnt too complex it works" but it's not a drop in replacement yet. i also want to stay the hell away from quadlets or any other software which tries to make me use systemd more.
figmert 5mo ago
> "what to do about docker compose?" I don't understand what you're asking here. The answer to that is probably nothing. That is unless you want: - systemd to manage your containers - You want to use K8s primitives (which are mostly compatible) I'm unsure what the 3rd method is you're talking about. The nice thing about Podman's compose API is you don't have to change anything (mostly). You can point all your docker tooling to Podman's socket, and it'll (mostly) magically work.
- pydry 5mo ago
  the three options are: * use systemd, red hat's favorite kitchen sink for handling everything from setting up sound services to mounting your home dir to logging so why not this too i guess. * docker compose where i have to run a whole separate podman service to lie to docker compose about not actually being docker. * podman compose which would be the obvious solution if it didnt just plain suck.
  - stryan 5mo ago
    > * use systemd, red hat's favorite kitchen sink for handling everything Systemd is a tool for managing services. Containers are services. Why require an entirely separate bespoke service manager when you're already running one? > * docker compose where i have to run a whole separate podman service to lie to docker compose about not actually being docker. This is the same system state as using docker compose with docker: you have a client program speaking to a backing daemon. Only difference here is the Podman service, being daemonless, only runs when needed (assuming you're setting up things the documented way by enabling the podman socket). > * podman compose which would be the obvious solution if it didnt just plain suck. Yeah I haven't had the best luck with it either. But part of the reason it's languished is that it makes more sense to just reimplement the Compose spec on the backend rather than re-invent the wheel and create a new compose client as well. There's also the fourth option of writing Kubernetes yaml and applying that with `podman kube play`. Honestly this is probably closer to being the podman equivalent of docker compose but since it involves writing The Bad YAML (kubernetes) rather than The Good YAML (compose) most people don't use it.