4 ms·

"Silently installs" is misleading. They are including a file in the package which is presumably related to the functionality of the software. I don't use chrome

"Silently installs" is misleading. They are including a file in the package which is presumably related to the functionality of the software. I don't use chrome for a long list of reasons but it is not standard or expected to get consent for that.

SirFatty 6mo ago
Look at how many headlines indicated that something is silently happening. It's a weird trend at the moment.
- vanderZwan 6mo ago
  We live in a tech world where it has become normalized that perfectly functioning software that you used to buy once and then got to use indefinitely suddenly receives an "update" to put previously existing functionality behind a pain subscription. The reasonable expectation people have is that an update fixes security bugs and maybe includes a few optimizations. So no, I don't think it's a weird trend at all that people start describing software as "silently" doing things when trust in automatic updates of software (a thing that software silently does) has deservedly gone down the drain in the last few years.
  - chrisjj 6mo ago
    Its a salesman's foot in the door, except its near-invisible and gets to walk round your house.
- WarmWash 6mo ago
  If it gets the clicks it sticks.
- coldtea 6mo ago
  No weird: accurate. It IS a silent install. I wanted a browser, not an LLM.
  - SirFatty 6mo ago
    Completely missing the point. https://share.google/aimode/WOJL4sf0GK2Vyi6kA https://share.google/aimode/WOJL4sf0GK2Vyi6kA
    - Diti 6mo ago
      What is this link supposed to be doing? Does it need desktop Chrome to run, maybe?
vanderZwan 6mo ago
Then what is your definition of "installing" exactly? Are you going to split hairs about it not being a separate program being installed and running in the background, but weights being used by code that is run inside the browser? Because honestly, I don't think there's any significant difference from the user's perspective here. Other than the fact that doing the latter bypasses the need to get permission to install a new program. Which makes it an even worse violation, in a way, since it undermines the trust that the browser as a platform is just a browser. A 4 GiB model has nothing to do with the functionality of a web browser. It is something forced on users without their consent. Of course that's what we get for giving the benefit of doubt to the company that insisted on learning the wrong things from the Google Buzz fiasco.
- doginasuit 6mo ago
  Install does convey something more involved than including a file, that's not splitting hairs. It is not uncommon for software to include malware that runs independently of the software you expected, and the headline is clickbait that taps into those concerns. I'm here for the concerns about bloat. "Downloads" would have been the right term to use but it doesn't sound as scary.
- jasonlotito 6mo ago
  > A 4 GiB model has nothing to do with the functionality of a web browser. It is something forced on users without their consent. This does not happen. The model is not downloaded unless the user intentionally uses the feature that requires it. Then it's downloaded at that point.
  - coldtea 6mo ago
    Unless the user uses a feature. That that feature (a) requires a local LLM, (b) will install a multi-GB download without telling the user, all happen without any explicit user consent.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - 6mo ago
etothet 6mo ago
There is, however, precedent for software alerting/asking the user to install “extras” or utility packs and showing the disk size that content will take up and even allowing the user to choose a location to store such things. Creative software does this all the time. There’s nothing stopping Google Chrome from doing something similar except, I suspect, Google knows or feels it will result in many fewer installs of its bloatware.
- yieldcrv 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - gregoryl 6mo ago
    I doubt many people here download any ads in a day.
  - etothet 6mo ago
    Rage bait? It's a fact about how some software handles downloading extra content. This issue and how ads on the web are served are two separate issues.
- doginasuit 6mo ago
  That's a good point. "Downloads a 4GB LLM model without notice" would get a good amount of attention and be an accurate representation of the situation. The article undermines itself by misrepresenting the problem.
rubyfan 6mo ago
“Silent” seems appropriate given it historically never required such a large storage requirement and the nature of the new feature seems entirely optional; and it’s happening silently as part of a normal upgrade.
- jasonlotito 6mo ago
  > it's happening silently as part of a normal upgrade. No, this is not true. The large requirement comes after a user wants to use the feature, not as a part of the normal upgrade. If the user never engages with the feature, it's not downloaded.
  - chrisjj 6mo ago
    > No, this is not true. The large requirement comes after a user wants to use the feature, The feature that didn't say it would cost you 4Gb, right?
  - dweinus 6mo ago
    According to above, it is triggered by the website calling the feature. The user might have no idea. That's not what consent looks like
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
  - coldtea 6mo ago
    That's even more silent.
functionmouse 6mo ago
This feels deliberately reductive
chrisjj 6mo ago
> "Silently installs" is misleading. They are including a file in the package which is presumably related to the functionality of the software. Related... to the functionality of feeding the same profit and loss account, right?
- cowboylowrez 6mo ago
  "functionality of the software" has already been mentioned haha
bityard 6mo ago
Are you okay with a 1 GB chrome install suddenly becoming a 5 GB chrome install on all your machines, without your permission or knowledge, for functionality you may or may not want?
- shimman 6mo ago
  Yes because in their mind corporate power is the only thing that matters in our lives. Not what people want, but what Google wants is clearly the only thing that matters for them. It's a bizarre way of living your life.
  - Diti 6mo ago
    They aren’t wrong, though. There is no incentive for Google to do anything else if 75 % of web users keep using Chrome no matter what happens to it.
- postalrat 6mo ago
  Isn't that what it always has done after caching a few weeks of websites?
CobrastanJorji 6mo ago
100%. "Researchers Discover Chrome Uses Your Hard Drive to Silently Make a Copy of Everything you Look At Online" is ominous and scary and also an accurate description of how caches work. There's enough scary and bad AI stuff to discuss without needing to use scare tactics.
- croes 6mo ago
  What part of rendering a web page needs Gemini?
  - CobrastanJorji 6mo ago
    What part of rendering a web page needs a local disk cache?
    - croes 6mo ago
      The part where you revisit or reload a site
      - CobrastanJorji 6mo ago
        Okay, then the part where I translate or extract text from an image or summarize a site is the part where I need Gemini.
        albedoa 6mo ago
        > the part where I need Gemini. This is like saying that the part of driving where you wash dishes is why you, personally, need a dishwasher in your car. There is no feature that would fail the challenge if you can always claim that you need it to render a web page. Local disk cache is a standard and reasonable feature expected by the vast majority of browser users. You are being obtuse.
        croes 6mo ago
        What part of rendering a site is text extraction or summary? Do you use a translation program to play browser games?
croes 6mo ago
They are installing a software package nobody expects and which isn’t need to run a browser.
ahmadtbk 6mo ago
Who paid you to write this

SirFatty 6mo ago

Look at how many headlines indicated that something is silently happening. It's a weird trend at the moment.

vanderZwan 6mo ago
We live in a tech world where it has become normalized that perfectly functioning software that you used to buy once and then got to use indefinitely suddenly receives an "update" to put previously existing functionality behind a pain subscription. The reasonable expectation people have is that an update fixes security bugs and maybe includes a few optimizations. So no, I don't think it's a weird trend at all that people start describing software as "silently" doing things when trust in automatic updates of software (a thing that software silently does) has deservedly gone down the drain in the last few years.
- chrisjj 6mo ago
  Its a salesman's foot in the door, except its near-invisible and gets to walk round your house.
WarmWash 6mo ago
If it gets the clicks it sticks.
coldtea 6mo ago
No weird: accurate. It IS a silent install. I wanted a browser, not an LLM.
- SirFatty 6mo ago
  Completely missing the point. https://share.google/aimode/WOJL4sf0GK2Vyi6kA https://share.google/aimode/WOJL4sf0GK2Vyi6kA
  - Diti 6mo ago
    What is this link supposed to be doing? Does it need desktop Chrome to run, maybe?

vanderZwan 6mo ago

Then what is your definition of "installing" exactly? Are you going to split hairs about it not being a separate program being installed and running in the background, but weights being used by code that is run inside the browser? Because honestly, I don't think there's any significant difference from the user's perspective here. Other than the fact that doing the latter bypasses the need to get permission to install a new program. Which makes it an even worse violation, in a way, since it undermines the trust that the browser as a platform is just a browser. A 4 GiB model has nothing to do with the functionality of a web browser. It is something forced on users without their consent. Of course that's what we get for giving the benefit of doubt to the company that insisted on learning the wrong things from the Google Buzz fiasco.

doginasuit 6mo ago
Install does convey something more involved than including a file, that's not splitting hairs. It is not uncommon for software to include malware that runs independently of the software you expected, and the headline is clickbait that taps into those concerns. I'm here for the concerns about bloat. "Downloads" would have been the right term to use but it doesn't sound as scary.
jasonlotito 6mo ago
> A 4 GiB model has nothing to do with the functionality of a web browser. It is something forced on users without their consent. This does not happen. The model is not downloaded unless the user intentionally uses the feature that requires it. Then it's downloaded at that point.
- coldtea 6mo ago
  Unless the user uses a feature. That that feature (a) requires a local LLM, (b) will install a multi-GB download without telling the user, all happen without any explicit user consent.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- 6mo ago

etothet 6mo ago

There is, however, precedent for software alerting/asking the user to install “extras” or utility packs and showing the disk size that content will take up and even allowing the user to choose a location to store such things. Creative software does this all the time. There’s nothing stopping Google Chrome from doing something similar except, I suspect, Google knows or feels it will result in many fewer installs of its bloatware.

yieldcrv 6mo ago
[flagged]
- gregoryl 6mo ago
  I doubt many people here download any ads in a day.
- etothet 6mo ago
  Rage bait? It's a fact about how some software handles downloading extra content. This issue and how ads on the web are served are two separate issues.
doginasuit 6mo ago
That's a good point. "Downloads a 4GB LLM model without notice" would get a good amount of attention and be an accurate representation of the situation. The article undermines itself by misrepresenting the problem.

rubyfan 6mo ago

“Silent” seems appropriate given it historically never required such a large storage requirement and the nature of the new feature seems entirely optional; and it’s happening silently as part of a normal upgrade.

jasonlotito 6mo ago
> it's happening silently as part of a normal upgrade. No, this is not true. The large requirement comes after a user wants to use the feature, not as a part of the normal upgrade. If the user never engages with the feature, it's not downloaded.
- chrisjj 6mo ago
  > No, this is not true. The large requirement comes after a user wants to use the feature, The feature that didn't say it would cost you 4Gb, right?
- dweinus 6mo ago
  According to above, it is triggered by the website calling the feature. The user might have no idea. That's not what consent looks like
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
- coldtea 6mo ago
  That's even more silent.

functionmouse 6mo ago

This feels deliberately reductive

chrisjj 6mo ago

> "Silently installs" is misleading. They are including a file in the package which is presumably related to the functionality of the software. Related... to the functionality of feeding the same profit and loss account, right?

cowboylowrez 6mo ago
"functionality of the software" has already been mentioned haha

bityard 6mo ago

Are you okay with a 1 GB chrome install suddenly becoming a 5 GB chrome install on all your machines, without your permission or knowledge, for functionality you may or may not want?

shimman 6mo ago
Yes because in their mind corporate power is the only thing that matters in our lives. Not what people want, but what Google wants is clearly the only thing that matters for them. It's a bizarre way of living your life.
- Diti 6mo ago
  They aren’t wrong, though. There is no incentive for Google to do anything else if 75 % of web users keep using Chrome no matter what happens to it.
postalrat 6mo ago
Isn't that what it always has done after caching a few weeks of websites?

CobrastanJorji 6mo ago

100%. "Researchers Discover Chrome Uses Your Hard Drive to Silently Make a Copy of Everything you Look At Online" is ominous and scary and also an accurate description of how caches work. There's enough scary and bad AI stuff to discuss without needing to use scare tactics.

croes 6mo ago
What part of rendering a web page needs Gemini?
- CobrastanJorji 6mo ago
  What part of rendering a web page needs a local disk cache?
  - croes 6mo ago
    The part where you revisit or reload a site
    - CobrastanJorji 6mo ago
      Okay, then the part where I translate or extract text from an image or summarize a site is the part where I need Gemini.
      - albedoa 6mo ago
        > the part where I need Gemini. This is like saying that the part of driving where you wash dishes is why you, personally, need a dishwasher in your car. There is no feature that would fail the challenge if you can always claim that you need it to render a web page. Local disk cache is a standard and reasonable feature expected by the vast majority of browser users. You are being obtuse.
      - croes 6mo ago
        What part of rendering a site is text extraction or summary? Do you use a translation program to play browser games?

croes 6mo ago

They are installing a software package nobody expects and which isn’t need to run a browser.

ahmadtbk 6mo ago

Who paid you to write this