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If it's emissions they worry about, then it's anything emitting. Are they against washing machines too? Or are they just grandfathered in?

zekrioca 5mo ago
Don't be disingenuous. Not all energy is created equally.
- newtonsmethod 5mo ago
  Are we back to magic water and magic soil? Does the energy have some morality attached to it? The emissions per kWh of energy used in providing internet downloads probably is similar to that per kWh of energy used for washing clothes.
  - Aachen 5mo ago
    You're not seriously trying to explain that a kWh is equal to a kWh. Why not cut the crap? Are you trying to say washing clothes is of equal importance to convenience features in a browser, given that we can use each clean kWh only once? I can't tell what you truly mean like this
    - frozenseven 5mo ago
      >a kWh is equal to a kWh Yes, and it's none of your business how other people spend their electricity.
      - vrganj 5mo ago
        That's where we disagree. With our current system so reliant on fossil fuels, every kWh generated is a debt to our planet, our society. Until that's resolved, I don't wish that debt incurred for frivolous uses.
        frozenseven 5mo ago
        What do you mean you "disagree"? I pay for the electricity I use and I use it however I want. Instead of trying to control other people, why can't you start with yourself? Throw away your phone/computer. Go live in a small hut. Practice what you preach.
        vrganj 5mo ago
        You read what I wrote, you just chose not to engage with it and went into an ideological creed instead. You may pay for it, but I and the rest of the planet incur the cost. I can go live the life of a hermit and the above will still be true. Your electricity use puts more pollution into our air. It burns our forests. It kills species we all depend on. No man is an island. Your actions affect others. Just paying your indulgences does not make that basic fact away.
        frozenseven 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        vrganj 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        frozenseven 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
        vrganj 5mo ago
        Still no engagement with actual arguments brought up several posts ago at this point. Still more attempts at derailment. Speaks for itself. I shall leave it at this then.
pjc50 5mo ago
This is literally why the EU mandates appliance energy efficiency. It's never a binary thing. "Is using energy good or bad?" is a stupid question which can only provide stupid answers. It has to be placed in the context of whether it's proportionate to benefit. Things which burn a lot of energy for little benefit - and in the case of AI, often negative benefit - end up more towards the "bad".
- farfatched 5mo ago
  That's a fair point. I hadn't considered that societies rightfully impose standards on these things. I consider it too early to judge the cost-benefit, but it's fair that others might have already evaluated that. I rescind my comment.

zekrioca 5mo ago

Don't be disingenuous. Not all energy is created equally.

newtonsmethod 5mo ago
Are we back to magic water and magic soil? Does the energy have some morality attached to it? The emissions per kWh of energy used in providing internet downloads probably is similar to that per kWh of energy used for washing clothes.
- Aachen 5mo ago
  You're not seriously trying to explain that a kWh is equal to a kWh. Why not cut the crap? Are you trying to say washing clothes is of equal importance to convenience features in a browser, given that we can use each clean kWh only once? I can't tell what you truly mean like this
  - frozenseven 5mo ago
    >a kWh is equal to a kWh Yes, and it's none of your business how other people spend their electricity.
    - vrganj 5mo ago
      That's where we disagree. With our current system so reliant on fossil fuels, every kWh generated is a debt to our planet, our society. Until that's resolved, I don't wish that debt incurred for frivolous uses.
      - frozenseven 5mo ago
        What do you mean you "disagree"? I pay for the electricity I use and I use it however I want. Instead of trying to control other people, why can't you start with yourself? Throw away your phone/computer. Go live in a small hut. Practice what you preach.
        vrganj 5mo ago
        You read what I wrote, you just chose not to engage with it and went into an ideological creed instead. You may pay for it, but I and the rest of the planet incur the cost. I can go live the life of a hermit and the above will still be true. Your electricity use puts more pollution into our air. It burns our forests. It kills species we all depend on. No man is an island. Your actions affect others. Just paying your indulgences does not make that basic fact away.
        frozenseven 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        vrganj 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        frozenseven 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
        vrganj 5mo ago
        Still no engagement with actual arguments brought up several posts ago at this point. Still more attempts at derailment. Speaks for itself. I shall leave it at this then.

pjc50 5mo ago

This is literally why the EU mandates appliance energy efficiency. It's never a binary thing. "Is using energy good or bad?" is a stupid question which can only provide stupid answers. It has to be placed in the context of whether it's proportionate to benefit. Things which burn a lot of energy for little benefit - and in the case of AI, often negative benefit - end up more towards the "bad".

farfatched 5mo ago
That's a fair point. I hadn't considered that societies rightfully impose standards on these things. I consider it too early to judge the cost-benefit, but it's fair that others might have already evaluated that. I rescind my comment.