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They've been consuming 15+ years of anti-Mozilla rants anytime it or Firefox are mentioned online. It's how you get things like "Browser monocultures are an is

They've been consuming 15+ years of anti-Mozilla rants anytime it or Firefox are mentioned online. It's how you get things like "Browser monocultures are an issue, so don't use Chrome (Blink), use Brave (Chromium (Blink)) instead!" said in earnest.

CalRobert 5mo ago
The more time goes on the more I feel like I live on a different planet. Even things like "shouldn't you be able to decide what software you run on the stuff you own?" gets blank stares.
- 2ndorderthought 5mo ago
  Hello fellow extraterrestrial
  - Schlagbohrer 5mo ago
    Old heads checking in... Back in my day, we had an exposed file hierarchy and we liked it!
    - CalRobert 5mo ago
      I still remember "oh my friend's iphone has a nice camera, how can I send myself that picture he took with bluetooth?" and being... a bit surprised that it wasn't really possible.
- cdrini 5mo ago
  Is anyone disagreeing with that statement?
  - CalRobert 5mo ago
    Yeah, among other things when I'm supportive of sideloading and disappointed that it's being greatly restricted on Android.
avazhi 5mo ago
I’ve been using Firefox for 20+ years and continue to do so, but let’s not pretend that Firefox hasn’t been an embarrassing shit show for most of the past 15.
- DarkUranium 5mo ago
  I'd recommend checking out WaterFox. It's what I switched to when I finally got sick & tired of Mozilla's shit.
  - 4ggr0 5mo ago
    i really feel like trying this out as a quasi-firefox user, but i've really started to love and appreciate Zen for its UI :( wonder if there's a Waterfox X Zen alternative. EDIT: whoops, should've scrolled down a bit on the website, looks like Waterfox has vertical tabs as well. damn, probably going to try to migrate to it sometime soon... EDIT2: of course supports firefox extensions as well, perfect.
    - Fnoord 5mo ago
      Firefox has vertical tabs as well, and it is a lot less bloated that the extension one I was using.
- glenstein 5mo ago
  People keep saying this like it's just conventional wisdom we all supposedly agree with. I think it's a string of tech articles and spiraling comment sections searching for drama that's kind of been a self-perpetuating phenomenon over the past 3 or 4 years the majority of which I think has been extremely unfair and mostly just based on vibes. If you actually scroll through HN and read the criticisms, they tend to trail off into vague phrases like "all the stuff they've been doing". If people read the release notes instead of the comment sections, not only would they have a lot more specific knowledge of the work going into the browser but they wouldn't be locked in this cycle of outrage and escalation that normally you only see in YouTube comment sections.
- tgv 5mo ago
DarkUranium 5mo ago
I mean ... frankly, and I say this as a guy who's used solely Firefox since before it was Firefox all the way until 2025 when I finally got sick & tired of their shit... (now on WaterFox because I refuse to submit to the Google browser monopoly) ... Mozilla absolutely did this to themselves. Come think of it, they really remind me of what Microsift's been doing with Windows.
- seszett 5mo ago
  I still don't understand what problem you guys have with Firefox. I really don't, and comments like yours are always very vague and seem to assume that it's obvious. For me Firefox is (slightly) better than is used to be, not by a wide margin but it's not gotten worse either. I've been running it since it was Phoenix so I think my experience is at least somewhat valid, which is why I'm so confused by these comments.
  - phs318u 5mo ago
    You’re not alone. Been a user for years and I still don’t get the hate. Having said that, I keep a copy of Ungoogled Chromium for those websites that refuse to test against FF.
    - DarkUranium 5mo ago
      FWIW: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48020960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48020960 Plus there's the Wikipedia link another user posted.
  - sgc 5mo ago
    Are you referring to technical implementation or the poor anti-privacy decisions they keep making when you say 'slightly better'? I have not given up, but I am profoundly disappointed and for somebody who says they have used FF for so long, it feels like I am being gaslit when you say they are peachy. People have problems with what they choose to program, not the quality of their code. I too have used FF since the beginning, but switched to Waterfox last year (it took me about two years to make that decision - I didn't make it lightly). I chose WF in large part because its profile remains compatible with FF so I can switch back if they calm the F down and start acting normal again for long enough to rebuild some trust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mozilla_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mozilla_Corporati... - start at the end for most recent. Also go to the website of any one of the FF forks and read their reasons for existing. For example: https://www.waterfox.com/#why-waterfox https://www.waterfox.com/#why-waterfox
eastbound 5mo ago
If Mozilla fired its CEO for a private political donation from 10 years earlier, it will not hesitate to do much worse to its users. Mozilla isn’t on the good side here. He’s the founder of Brave, by the way.
- b40d-48b2-979e 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - carlivar 5mo ago
    16-18 years ago. Is bigotry always a permanent condition?
    - b40d-48b2-979e 5mo ago
      At that time, it was 10 years ago, which is what I was responding to. Is bigotry always a permanent condition? Yes, people famously change more as they get older. Eich was already a man in his 40s at that point in time. He also doubled-down instead of acknowledging any wrongdoing.
    - dpkirchner 5mo ago
      Has he apologized?
      - kbelder 5mo ago
        You know, you're condemning most of California. The measure he supported won the vote. Would you like to drive all of them out of their jobs?
        dpkirchner 5mo ago
        I wouldn't want to use anything that earn them money, if I could avoid it. That it was half the population doesn't change my view. I understand that it is difficult for me to shun (which is basically what I'm talking about) so many people, or to even know if they should be shunned, but it would definitely be my preference.
3form 5mo ago
Or simply they haven't heard much about it at all, don't care, and chalk it up to OP being some sort of an odd hipster. Man, so many things could be better if people cared.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
red-iron-pine 5mo ago
its almost like Google, a marketing company with a serious requirement for data mining, could be talking shit about Mozilla...
- account42 5mo ago
  Why would Google talk shit about their subsidiary's product.
account42 5mo ago
Then maybe Mozilla should stop doing things that upset the users that actually care to use Firefox in a vain attempt to chase the average Chrome user.
- ahmadtbk 5mo ago
  at least we can use ublock and turn off ai

CalRobert 5mo ago

The more time goes on the more I feel like I live on a different planet. Even things like "shouldn't you be able to decide what software you run on the stuff you own?" gets blank stares.

2ndorderthought 5mo ago
Hello fellow extraterrestrial
- Schlagbohrer 5mo ago
  Old heads checking in... Back in my day, we had an exposed file hierarchy and we liked it!
  - CalRobert 5mo ago
    I still remember "oh my friend's iphone has a nice camera, how can I send myself that picture he took with bluetooth?" and being... a bit surprised that it wasn't really possible.
cdrini 5mo ago
Is anyone disagreeing with that statement?
- CalRobert 5mo ago
  Yeah, among other things when I'm supportive of sideloading and disappointed that it's being greatly restricted on Android.

avazhi 5mo ago

I’ve been using Firefox for 20+ years and continue to do so, but let’s not pretend that Firefox hasn’t been an embarrassing shit show for most of the past 15.

DarkUranium 5mo ago
I'd recommend checking out WaterFox. It's what I switched to when I finally got sick & tired of Mozilla's shit.
- 4ggr0 5mo ago
  i really feel like trying this out as a quasi-firefox user, but i've really started to love and appreciate Zen for its UI :( wonder if there's a Waterfox X Zen alternative. EDIT: whoops, should've scrolled down a bit on the website, looks like Waterfox has vertical tabs as well. damn, probably going to try to migrate to it sometime soon... EDIT2: of course supports firefox extensions as well, perfect.
  - Fnoord 5mo ago
    Firefox has vertical tabs as well, and it is a lot less bloated that the extension one I was using.
glenstein 5mo ago
People keep saying this like it's just conventional wisdom we all supposedly agree with. I think it's a string of tech articles and spiraling comment sections searching for drama that's kind of been a self-perpetuating phenomenon over the past 3 or 4 years the majority of which I think has been extremely unfair and mostly just based on vibes. If you actually scroll through HN and read the criticisms, they tend to trail off into vague phrases like "all the stuff they've been doing". If people read the release notes instead of the comment sections, not only would they have a lot more specific knowledge of the work going into the browser but they wouldn't be locked in this cycle of outrage and escalation that normally you only see in YouTube comment sections.
tgv 5mo ago

DarkUranium 5mo ago

I mean ... frankly, and I say this as a guy who's used solely Firefox since before it was Firefox all the way until 2025 when I finally got sick & tired of their shit... (now on WaterFox because I refuse to submit to the Google browser monopoly) ... Mozilla absolutely did this to themselves. Come think of it, they really remind me of what Microsift's been doing with Windows.

seszett 5mo ago
I still don't understand what problem you guys have with Firefox. I really don't, and comments like yours are always very vague and seem to assume that it's obvious. For me Firefox is (slightly) better than is used to be, not by a wide margin but it's not gotten worse either. I've been running it since it was Phoenix so I think my experience is at least somewhat valid, which is why I'm so confused by these comments.
- phs318u 5mo ago
  You’re not alone. Been a user for years and I still don’t get the hate. Having said that, I keep a copy of Ungoogled Chromium for those websites that refuse to test against FF.
  - DarkUranium 5mo ago
    FWIW: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48020960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48020960 Plus there's the Wikipedia link another user posted.
- sgc 5mo ago
  Are you referring to technical implementation or the poor anti-privacy decisions they keep making when you say 'slightly better'? I have not given up, but I am profoundly disappointed and for somebody who says they have used FF for so long, it feels like I am being gaslit when you say they are peachy. People have problems with what they choose to program, not the quality of their code. I too have used FF since the beginning, but switched to Waterfox last year (it took me about two years to make that decision - I didn't make it lightly). I chose WF in large part because its profile remains compatible with FF so I can switch back if they calm the F down and start acting normal again for long enough to rebuild some trust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mozilla_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mozilla_Corporati... - start at the end for most recent. Also go to the website of any one of the FF forks and read their reasons for existing. For example: https://www.waterfox.com/#why-waterfox https://www.waterfox.com/#why-waterfox

eastbound 5mo ago

If Mozilla fired its CEO for a private political donation from 10 years earlier, it will not hesitate to do much worse to its users. Mozilla isn’t on the good side here. He’s the founder of Brave, by the way.

b40d-48b2-979e 5mo ago
[flagged]
- carlivar 5mo ago
  16-18 years ago. Is bigotry always a permanent condition?
  - b40d-48b2-979e 5mo ago
    At that time, it was 10 years ago, which is what I was responding to. Is bigotry always a permanent condition? Yes, people famously change more as they get older. Eich was already a man in his 40s at that point in time. He also doubled-down instead of acknowledging any wrongdoing.
  - dpkirchner 5mo ago
    Has he apologized?
    - kbelder 5mo ago
      You know, you're condemning most of California. The measure he supported won the vote. Would you like to drive all of them out of their jobs?
      - dpkirchner 5mo ago
        I wouldn't want to use anything that earn them money, if I could avoid it. That it was half the population doesn't change my view. I understand that it is difficult for me to shun (which is basically what I'm talking about) so many people, or to even know if they should be shunned, but it would definitely be my preference.

3form 5mo ago

Or simply they haven't heard much about it at all, don't care, and chalk it up to OP being some sort of an odd hipster. Man, so many things could be better if people cared.

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

red-iron-pine 5mo ago

its almost like Google, a marketing company with a serious requirement for data mining, could be talking shit about Mozilla...

account42 5mo ago
Why would Google talk shit about their subsidiary's product.

account42 5mo ago

Then maybe Mozilla should stop doing things that upset the users that actually care to use Firefox in a vain attempt to chase the average Chrome user.

ahmadtbk 5mo ago
at least we can use ublock and turn off ai