5 ms·

New Zealand appears to be missing from the map. Hard to know in this case if we're missing for the usual reason or because we have no food production gap.

by jemmyw 6mo ago

DavidSJ 6mo ago
Given that many of the depicted countries list as having "sufficient production", I guess it's for the usual reason.
- anitil 6mo ago
  For those wondering what the usual reason is - https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/
  - rf15 6mo ago
    That is just a subreddit, I don't really see where it describes the problem. Anyway: It's because on the Mercator projection, it is a small point in the bottom right that easily gets overlooked or accidently cropped out.
    - PinkMilkshake 6mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_m...
    - anitil 6mo ago
      You're right I should have explained rather than throwing a link. Poor Tasmania suffers the same fate, even among Australians though I think the reason is more cultural
dwd 6mo ago
Haha I would think New Zealand would be in a similar situation to Australia. Australia would be fine - we export 2/3 of our produce so have no problem. This study doesn't seem to account for trade, consumer choice and price differentials world-wide. We don't grow some produce because it's easier/cheaper to import and any local producer may struggle on price, unless they can differentiate on something else like organic. As for fish, we prefer to maintain sustainable local fish stocks, and choose import. We're screwed on coffee and chocolate.
- femto 6mo ago
  > As for fish, we prefer to maintain sustainable local fish stocks, and choose import. There's hard evidence for this in the form of a map [1]. The light pixels close to the Australian coastline are Australian vessels fishing close in. The solid light areas further from the coast are other countries' vessels stripping the ocean bare. It's particularly obvious to the north east of Australia, where the solid line is the edge of Australia's exclusive economic zone. Minimal activity (dark) inside the zone, being stripped bare (light) outside the zone. China may be listed as self-sufficient in fish, but its fish are not coming from near China [2]. Mind you, Australia's not helping if it's just buying from countries that are stripping stocks. [1] https://globalfishingwatch.org/map/index?longitude=126.00884255644853&latitude=-6.3323821927544675&zoom=3.742998991643083 https://globalfishingwatch.org/map/index?longitude=126.00884... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-19/how-china-is-plundering-the-worlds-oceans/12971422 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-19/how-china-is-plunderi... > We're screwed on coffee and chocolate. If things get desperate, AU does have small coffee and cacao goring industries! https://www.agca.au/ https://www.agca.au/ https://www.thechocolateprofessor.com/blog/australian-cacao https://www.thechocolateprofessor.com/blog/australian-cacao
  - maxglute 6mo ago
    >China may be listed as self-sufficient in fish, but its fish are not coming from near China PRC fishing is ~85% domestic aquaculture. THE HIGHEST RATIO OF SUSTAINABLE AQUACULTURE IN THE WROLD. Of 15% remaining wild catch, ~50% is from east sea, i.e. PRC coast. So ~95% self sufficiency. ~98% including SCS, i.e. PRC definition of sovereign waters. Functionally, self sufficiency is at 100%, since PRC large aquaculture exporter. All the distant fishing drama/propaganda is just 2-5% of PRC fishing, which per capita they underfish relative other major fishing distant water fishing actors like JP, SKR, TW, Spain etc. For reference PRC distant water catches like 1.5kg per capita, the others 3-30kg+, i.e. 2-20x PRC. TLDR is PRC is the largest aquaculture producer (absolute&relative) that also grossly under extracts from global commons relative to other DWF, unless one thinks PRC citizens entitled to less fish.
    - irishcoffee 6mo ago
lucumo 6mo ago
NZ is (famously) often cut off from maps. Surprisingly, The Netherlands is missing on this map too. It's not just missing data: Germany and Belgium gained a lot of North Sea shore. I was actually interested in the Netherlands, because my country has for the last 80 years followed policies with the express focus of never having a food shortage again, even during world wars. It's agricultural output is insane for a country with its surface area.
- stinos 6mo ago
  Surprisingly, The Netherlands is missing on this map too. Very strange indeed. It's agricultural output is insane for a country with its surface area. Isn't that, just like in Belgium, mostly so for meat and derived products? Which also happens to be one of the worst situations (of natural food production) ecologically: grow and import a ton of corn and soy, export again, and in the meantime all the pesticides and methane and nitrogen and manure etc are left in your country.
  - dbcooper 6mo ago
    The Netherlands is almost legendary for its agricultural productivity. Its greenhouse operations were the model for NZ capsicum production and other efforts. It also leads food science research in some areas. Wageningen is perhaps the best in that field.
  - RetroTechie 6mo ago
    s/meat/dairy Worldwide, dairy & meat are big drivers in climate change, as well as other ecological problems. The NL has a front row seat there. :-( Eg. quality of surface waters is about the worst among EU countries. Imho the NL would be a better country without its dairy industry: land to re-purpose for growing other crops, increase nature and/or recreational areas, reduce a host of ecological issues, etc. At the cost of a vanishingly small part of our GDP. But alas - dairy industry, its suppliers & their lobby is a powerful one. So change is slow to come and only if/where absolutely necessary.
magicbuzz 6mo ago
NZ does well though: fruits, dairy, meat, vegetables and legumes Says a bit about Nature reviewers if the paper misses out a country that would have impact on the key points in the abstract

New Zealand appears to be missing from the map. Hard to know in this case if we're missing for the usual reason or because we have no food production gap.

by jemmyw 6mo ago

New Zealand appears to be missing from the map. Hard to know in this case if we're missing for the usual reason or because we have no food production gap.

DavidSJ 6mo ago

Given that many of the depicted countries list as having "sufficient production", I guess it's for the usual reason.

anitil 6mo ago
For those wondering what the usual reason is - https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapsWithoutNZ/
- rf15 6mo ago
  That is just a subreddit, I don't really see where it describes the problem. Anyway: It's because on the Mercator projection, it is a small point in the bottom right that easily gets overlooked or accidently cropped out.
  - PinkMilkshake 6mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_m...
  - anitil 6mo ago
    You're right I should have explained rather than throwing a link. Poor Tasmania suffers the same fate, even among Australians though I think the reason is more cultural

dwd 6mo ago

Haha I would think New Zealand would be in a similar situation to Australia. Australia would be fine - we export 2/3 of our produce so have no problem. This study doesn't seem to account for trade, consumer choice and price differentials world-wide. We don't grow some produce because it's easier/cheaper to import and any local producer may struggle on price, unless they can differentiate on something else like organic. As for fish, we prefer to maintain sustainable local fish stocks, and choose import. We're screwed on coffee and chocolate.

femto 6mo ago
> As for fish, we prefer to maintain sustainable local fish stocks, and choose import. There's hard evidence for this in the form of a map [1]. The light pixels close to the Australian coastline are Australian vessels fishing close in. The solid light areas further from the coast are other countries' vessels stripping the ocean bare. It's particularly obvious to the north east of Australia, where the solid line is the edge of Australia's exclusive economic zone. Minimal activity (dark) inside the zone, being stripped bare (light) outside the zone. China may be listed as self-sufficient in fish, but its fish are not coming from near China [2]. Mind you, Australia's not helping if it's just buying from countries that are stripping stocks. [1] https://globalfishingwatch.org/map/index?longitude=126.00884255644853&latitude=-6.3323821927544675&zoom=3.742998991643083 https://globalfishingwatch.org/map/index?longitude=126.00884... [2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-19/how-china-is-plundering-the-worlds-oceans/12971422 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-19/how-china-is-plunderi... > We're screwed on coffee and chocolate. If things get desperate, AU does have small coffee and cacao goring industries! https://www.agca.au/ https://www.agca.au/ https://www.thechocolateprofessor.com/blog/australian-cacao https://www.thechocolateprofessor.com/blog/australian-cacao
- maxglute 6mo ago
  >China may be listed as self-sufficient in fish, but its fish are not coming from near China PRC fishing is ~85% domestic aquaculture. THE HIGHEST RATIO OF SUSTAINABLE AQUACULTURE IN THE WROLD. Of 15% remaining wild catch, ~50% is from east sea, i.e. PRC coast. So ~95% self sufficiency. ~98% including SCS, i.e. PRC definition of sovereign waters. Functionally, self sufficiency is at 100%, since PRC large aquaculture exporter. All the distant fishing drama/propaganda is just 2-5% of PRC fishing, which per capita they underfish relative other major fishing distant water fishing actors like JP, SKR, TW, Spain etc. For reference PRC distant water catches like 1.5kg per capita, the others 3-30kg+, i.e. 2-20x PRC. TLDR is PRC is the largest aquaculture producer (absolute&relative) that also grossly under extracts from global commons relative to other DWF, unless one thinks PRC citizens entitled to less fish.
  - irishcoffee 6mo ago

lucumo 6mo ago

NZ is (famously) often cut off from maps. Surprisingly, The Netherlands is missing on this map too. It's not just missing data: Germany and Belgium gained a lot of North Sea shore. I was actually interested in the Netherlands, because my country has for the last 80 years followed policies with the express focus of never having a food shortage again, even during world wars. It's agricultural output is insane for a country with its surface area.

stinos 6mo ago
Surprisingly, The Netherlands is missing on this map too. Very strange indeed. It's agricultural output is insane for a country with its surface area. Isn't that, just like in Belgium, mostly so for meat and derived products? Which also happens to be one of the worst situations (of natural food production) ecologically: grow and import a ton of corn and soy, export again, and in the meantime all the pesticides and methane and nitrogen and manure etc are left in your country.
- dbcooper 6mo ago
  The Netherlands is almost legendary for its agricultural productivity. Its greenhouse operations were the model for NZ capsicum production and other efforts. It also leads food science research in some areas. Wageningen is perhaps the best in that field.
- RetroTechie 6mo ago
  s/meat/dairy Worldwide, dairy & meat are big drivers in climate change, as well as other ecological problems. The NL has a front row seat there. :-( Eg. quality of surface waters is about the worst among EU countries. Imho the NL would be a better country without its dairy industry: land to re-purpose for growing other crops, increase nature and/or recreational areas, reduce a host of ecological issues, etc. At the cost of a vanishingly small part of our GDP. But alas - dairy industry, its suppliers & their lobby is a powerful one. So change is slow to come and only if/where absolutely necessary.

magicbuzz 6mo ago

NZ does well though: fruits, dairy, meat, vegetables and legumes Says a bit about Nature reviewers if the paper misses out a country that would have impact on the key points in the abstract