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> [it] become[s] cheaper than gas heating within 11 to 14 years This a no-brainer for buildings with high energy use. But we looked into getting a heat pump la

by ndr42 5mo ago

> [it] become[s] cheaper than gas heating within 11 to 14 years This a no-brainer for buildings with high energy use. But we looked into getting a heat pump last year but it doesn't pan out because our house (15 years old) has a very low energy use and we would not recover the costs (about 20K euros after subsidies) for 20+ years.

teachrdan 5mo ago
With any luck, oil prices will rise enough to make that conversion worthwhile!
bluGill 5mo ago
Your existing system will not last forever. When you have to spend money anyway that changes things.
- ndr42 5mo ago
  Yes. It also depends on the age of your gas heating as in Germany you get 20% subsidies when your system is 20 years or older, unfortunately this subsidy decreases 3 percentage points every year so when we are due it will be about 5%.
- mikestorrent 5mo ago
  It did for me. 40-year old furnace was starting to sound bad and subsidies locally were excellent; I now have a 3-ton heat pump and my house is fine in winter or summer for far less money than gas. It might have been harder to justify without subsidy, but we do need people to make this shift and a lot of homeowners will not consider things with 20-year ROI.
- monegator 5mo ago
  in my case: 3k at most for a replacement gas furnace, and heat pumps would require new wirings as well. Many things would need to break at once to make it worth considering when you have older homes New homes with mandated PV and battery, that's another story.
  - bluGill 5mo ago
    Where I live every house has the wiring for AC anyway, so a heat pump only needs a different valve in the system you will always have (this is about $50 in parts, but they charge thousands extra for it) I paid for it anyway - my furnace was 50 years old (probably 60% efficient when new), and I have no idea how bad the AC was. That said, for less money I added more insulation to my house and that has a better ROI. (unfortunately the design of the house doesn't allow for even more insulation even though I could save a lot more if it could be done)
toasty228 5mo ago
> [it] become[s] cheaper than gas heating within 11 to 14 years They also always stop the savings estimates right before the expected lifespan of the heatpump, at which point you have to buy a new unit which destroys the actual savings
- ZeroGravitas 5mo ago
  At the moment, heat pumps are mostly retrofitted to homes not designed for heat pumps, which adds to the cost. You can't compare that work to a future heat pump swap which is a much smaller job.
  - toasty228 5mo ago
    I'm building a house right now, it's much cheaper to invest in insulation, well designed window placement and passive cooling (ground/air or ground/water exchangers) than heat pumps and other high tech solutions. Heat pumps are like pellet stoves in Europe a few years ago, the day the subsidies go away nobody wants them anymore.

by ndr42 5mo ago

teachrdan 5mo ago

With any luck, oil prices will rise enough to make that conversion worthwhile!

bluGill 5mo ago

Your existing system will not last forever. When you have to spend money anyway that changes things.

ndr42 5mo ago
Yes. It also depends on the age of your gas heating as in Germany you get 20% subsidies when your system is 20 years or older, unfortunately this subsidy decreases 3 percentage points every year so when we are due it will be about 5%.
mikestorrent 5mo ago
It did for me. 40-year old furnace was starting to sound bad and subsidies locally were excellent; I now have a 3-ton heat pump and my house is fine in winter or summer for far less money than gas. It might have been harder to justify without subsidy, but we do need people to make this shift and a lot of homeowners will not consider things with 20-year ROI.
monegator 5mo ago
in my case: 3k at most for a replacement gas furnace, and heat pumps would require new wirings as well. Many things would need to break at once to make it worth considering when you have older homes New homes with mandated PV and battery, that's another story.
- bluGill 5mo ago
  Where I live every house has the wiring for AC anyway, so a heat pump only needs a different valve in the system you will always have (this is about $50 in parts, but they charge thousands extra for it) I paid for it anyway - my furnace was 50 years old (probably 60% efficient when new), and I have no idea how bad the AC was. That said, for less money I added more insulation to my house and that has a better ROI. (unfortunately the design of the house doesn't allow for even more insulation even though I could save a lot more if it could be done)

toasty228 5mo ago

> [it] become[s] cheaper than gas heating within 11 to 14 years They also always stop the savings estimates right before the expected lifespan of the heatpump, at which point you have to buy a new unit which destroys the actual savings

ZeroGravitas 5mo ago
At the moment, heat pumps are mostly retrofitted to homes not designed for heat pumps, which adds to the cost. You can't compare that work to a future heat pump swap which is a much smaller job.
- toasty228 5mo ago
  I'm building a house right now, it's much cheaper to invest in insulation, well designed window placement and passive cooling (ground/air or ground/water exchangers) than heat pumps and other high tech solutions. Heat pumps are like pellet stoves in Europe a few years ago, the day the subsidies go away nobody wants them anymore.