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I still don't understand - Israel and its citizens claim that Gaza is the aggressor. While the civilian casualties are much higher on Palestinian side. And whi

by runn1ng 14y ago

I still don't understand - Israel and its citizens claim that Gaza is the aggressor. While the civilian casualties are much higher on Palestinian side. And while it's Israel who blocks shipping goods and humanitarian aid to Gaza.

maratd 14y ago
> And while it's Israel who blocks shipping goods and humanitarian aid to Gaza. Actually, those aren't blocked. Well, unless you consider missiles to be humanitarian aid. Should they just let Iran ship weapons into Gaza to be used against Israeli civilians?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Are you quite sure all of them were missiles? http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/israeli-naval-force-blocks-humanitarian-aid-from-entering-gaza/ http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/israeli-naval-force-b... http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/suffocating-gaza-israeli-blockades-effects-palestinians-2010-06-01 http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/suffocating-gaza-... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11nations.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11nations...
  - maratd 14y ago
    Expecting perfection from a process largely performed by human beings is ridiculous. Of course there were legitimate shipments that were blocked by mistake and of course, there were those who were rightfully pissed when that happened. I am sure that if no missiles were being brought into Gaza or if those missiles weren't used for killing Israeli civilians, there would be no blockade of anything. What do you expect the Israelis to do? Just die? Oh wait, that is what you expect them to do.
  - aes256 14y ago
    Regarding the flotilla debacle, Israel offered to have the ships dock at Israeli ports, inspect the cargo, and transfer any legitimate aid through the land crossings. The flotilla organizers refused this offer. Their purpose was not to deliver humanitarian aid, but to cause a spectacle drawing attention to the security restrictions imposed on the Strip. Once the flotilla was diverted and the contents were unloaded and placed on Israeli trucks to be transferred to the Gaza Strip, Hamas refused to accept it. This humanitarian aid was apparently so urgently needed that Hamas decided they didn't want to lose face by accepting it.
three14 14y ago
Why does that seem contradictory? Gaza can be the aggressor, but Israel is much better armed. (Don't confuse shipping with getting by truck; they don't receive supplies by ship, but they do get plenty of supplies.)
- antihero 14y ago
  Right, Israel occupies their land but Gaza is the aggressor?
  - helgy 14y ago
    Huh, WTF? Israel is not occupying Gaza since 2005.
    - antihero 14y ago
      They are occupying the West Bank. I would have said Palestine, but I was using the words of the OP.
  - jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
    "Their land"... if there is something that the Palestina and Israel conflict has remembered us is that nobody owns anything that they can't defend. The Americans killed the natives and then future generations don't think that it matters because they weren't directly involved in that; the same thing happens in this conflict that haves already many years in the making. People entitle themselves to land for no logical reason; nobody thinks: "This country haves 40 million people an there is 7.053 billion people in the world; therefore we should only own a 176.325th of the available terrain"; never happens.
    - antihero 14y ago
      By this logic I could punch you in the face and steal your phone and it would be completely righteous because you didn't defend it well enough. What is the point of civilisation if it fails to prevent suffering?
  - 14y ago
helgy 14y ago
That's trivial to understand though. Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinian people. They are fanatics, why would they? Most of their weapons including medium range missiles is stored in civilian homes, mosques or other public places that less likely to be targeted. As a bonus points if such storage gets hit it's a breaking news for reporters who love to write stories about "Israel bombed mosque, 9000 children are killed".
shn 14y ago
Because they know very well to play the "victim". Checkout the map at http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/08/no-end-in-sight/ http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/08/no-end-in-sight/

by runn1ng 14y ago

maratd 14y ago

> And while it's Israel who blocks shipping goods and humanitarian aid to Gaza. Actually, those aren't blocked. Well, unless you consider missiles to be humanitarian aid. Should they just let Iran ship weapons into Gaza to be used against Israeli civilians?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
pooriaazimi 14y ago
Are you quite sure all of them were missiles? http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/israeli-naval-force-blocks-humanitarian-aid-from-entering-gaza/ http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/israeli-naval-force-b... http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/suffocating-gaza-israeli-blockades-effects-palestinians-2010-06-01 http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/suffocating-gaza-... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11nations.html http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/world/middleeast/11nations...
- maratd 14y ago
  Expecting perfection from a process largely performed by human beings is ridiculous. Of course there were legitimate shipments that were blocked by mistake and of course, there were those who were rightfully pissed when that happened. I am sure that if no missiles were being brought into Gaza or if those missiles weren't used for killing Israeli civilians, there would be no blockade of anything. What do you expect the Israelis to do? Just die? Oh wait, that is what you expect them to do.
- aes256 14y ago
  Regarding the flotilla debacle, Israel offered to have the ships dock at Israeli ports, inspect the cargo, and transfer any legitimate aid through the land crossings. The flotilla organizers refused this offer. Their purpose was not to deliver humanitarian aid, but to cause a spectacle drawing attention to the security restrictions imposed on the Strip. Once the flotilla was diverted and the contents were unloaded and placed on Israeli trucks to be transferred to the Gaza Strip, Hamas refused to accept it. This humanitarian aid was apparently so urgently needed that Hamas decided they didn't want to lose face by accepting it.

three14 14y ago

Why does that seem contradictory? Gaza can be the aggressor, but Israel is much better armed. (Don't confuse shipping with getting by truck; they don't receive supplies by ship, but they do get plenty of supplies.)

antihero 14y ago
Right, Israel occupies their land but Gaza is the aggressor?
- helgy 14y ago
  Huh, WTF? Israel is not occupying Gaza since 2005.
  - antihero 14y ago
    They are occupying the West Bank. I would have said Palestine, but I was using the words of the OP.
- jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
  "Their land"... if there is something that the Palestina and Israel conflict has remembered us is that nobody owns anything that they can't defend. The Americans killed the natives and then future generations don't think that it matters because they weren't directly involved in that; the same thing happens in this conflict that haves already many years in the making. People entitle themselves to land for no logical reason; nobody thinks: "This country haves 40 million people an there is 7.053 billion people in the world; therefore we should only own a 176.325th of the available terrain"; never happens.
  - antihero 14y ago
    By this logic I could punch you in the face and steal your phone and it would be completely righteous because you didn't defend it well enough. What is the point of civilisation if it fails to prevent suffering?
- 14y ago

helgy 14y ago

That's trivial to understand though. Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinian people. They are fanatics, why would they? Most of their weapons including medium range missiles is stored in civilian homes, mosques or other public places that less likely to be targeted. As a bonus points if such storage gets hit it's a breaking news for reporters who love to write stories about "Israel bombed mosque, 9000 children are killed".

shn 14y ago

Because they know very well to play the "victim". Checkout the map at http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/08/no-end-in-sight/ http://www.freerangelongmont.com/2012/06/08/no-end-in-sight/