8 ms·
If I leave a post-it note of passwords on my monitor inside a vault to which only I have access, it’s not a big deal. That’s the point of the “airtight hatch” m
by stouset 6mo ago
If I leave a post-it note of passwords on my monitor inside a vault to which only I have access, it’s not a big deal. That’s the point of the “airtight hatch” metaphor.
- Someone1234 6mo agoRight; but in the scenario of this Tweek, you've invited someone untrustworthy into the vault and are then freaking out because they can see the post-it note of passwords. It is inherently irrational. This issue is inherently unfixable by ANY password manager, because the process model of the underlying OS isn't itself secure. No obfuscation will work, because the password manager itself needs to de-obfuscation it before use (and that memory too is dump-able). All adding in-memory obfuscation does it make ignorant people feel better, while not moving the security needle even an inch.
- ignoramous 6mo ago> This issue is inherently unfixable by ANY password manager, because the process model of the underlying OS isn't itself secure Usually the confidential bits are hardware isolated away from the supervisor (host kernel/OS) in Enclaves/TEEs, Realms, Secure Elements, Security chips, etc.
- jazzyjackson 6mo agoOne more reason to use hardware-bound passkeys and not passwords.
- Someone1234 6mo agoTrue. But then your hardware dies, and you're locked out of every account you own. It is objectively good security, but has a ton of usability headaches yet to be really solved. I've seen orgs move to passkeys only, then offer reset-questions (e.g. city of first job, etc); because the Customer Service volume/workflow wasn't figured out.
- jazzyjackson 6mo agooh lawd, yes it does come down to 'who has the power to reset your account', and very few people want to take the path of 'no one has the power' in the case of lost credentials.
- alterom 6mo ago>your hardware dies Or your backpack gets stolen. Oops. I swear, people who idolize passkey security must never travel anywhere. PS: "just have more devices with passkeys", they invariably say. Yeah right because people are made of money, everyone has the forethought, and a 2nd laptop in the US is a great asset when you're in Poland and can't login anywhere.
- StilesCrisis 6mo agoI've been avoiding passkeys but more and more websites are trying to push them, and one website I use now requires them. I've already got a password manager! I don't need to change everything again!
- stouset 6mo agoYour password manager almost certainly already has baked-in passkey support.
- StilesCrisis 6mo agoIt does, but what's your point? Why should I redo everything?
- stouset 6mo agoNobody is asking you to?
- crazygringo 6mo agoThe subject here is literally websites trying to push passkeys on users. That is who is asking us to. About every week now Amazon tries to trick me into creating a passkey. It doesn't even ask, it just goes ahead and triggers my browser passkey creation mechanism without my consent. PayPal recently tried to force me to create one too and I had to kill and restart the app because that was the only way to skip it. I'll stick to my password with 2FA, thanks.
- oasisaimlessly 6mo agoNo, that is actually very rare, not typical. Do you have any examples of password managers that do that?
- stouset 6mo agoI think we’re largely in agreement. I do think there’s some benefit in reducing the amount of time that a password is in cleartext in memory. But it’s pretty far down the list.
- solidasparagus 6mo agoI think we've moved away from the secure perimeter thinking and towards defense in depth - if that list of passwords helps you get somewhere other than the vault, removing the post-it improves security. Vaults get infiltrated all the time - and often in partial ways like being able to see into the vault but not reach in.
- dwattttt 6mo agoDefence in depth matters, but an analysis here shows that the same mechanism used to breach the outer layers (getting administrative access) can be used to breach the next layer (more thoroughly prodding Edge or Chrome to give up passwords).