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THREAD MOVED: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4801403 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4801403 This is really well made propaganda to portray Israelis a

THREAD MOVED: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4801403 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4801403 This is really well made propaganda to portray Israelis as victims. They are not victims. The world needs to pressure Israel to end their special brand of apartheid. Some may say the Palestinians have their own state so it isn't apartheid. But they do not have a state in the normal sense of the word. For example, Israel dictates what planes and ships can land. I personally support human rights and religious freedom.

tboren 14y ago
Such self righteousness. The only reason Israel attacks military targets in Gaza is because it has to defend itself. There is no point in getting into a "who started it first" argument. It baffles me that the world is so ignorant towards the fact that Israel has been tolerant to decades of daily attack from Hamas terrorists in Gaza. No one protests, no one shouts, nothing. But the moment Israel decides to defend itself it becomes the target of demonizing propaganda (for example: the picture of the injured Israeli baby, with a caption that says it is a Palestinian baby injured by the IDF. Or the picture of the dead Syrian child, with the same caption). Israeli citizens ARE victims. Who are you to say they're not? They are not the only victims - war is messy and full of mistakes, but the IDF does everything in its power to not hurt innocent Gaza civillians (phone calls, pamphlets, canceling attacks altogether, etc.) I also find it interesting that many started calling Hamas terrorists Hamas "militants". It's like someone would start calling terrorists Al Qaeda militants and scold the U.S. for defending itself. Hamas is a terrorist organization and it always has been. Back in 2004 it even recognized itself as such. My point is - who are you to say that Israelis are not victims? I bet you're sitting very comfortable very far away from any missiles while you type these void remarks. Israel has a right to defend itself.
benjlang 14y ago
Call it propaganda, but I still have missiles being fired at me and family and friends every day. Hamas is specifically trying to hit civilians. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in my place.
- lifeguard 14y ago
  Have you made a web page about the cluster bombs the IDF dropped on civilian areas (a war crime)?
- aqme28 14y ago
  No, but I would MUCH MUCH rather be an Israeli than a Palestinian in Gaza.
- lifeguard 14y ago
  The odd assassination aside, Israel is a democracy. You are responsible for your government just like I am for mine. Make a real peace with the Palestinians and end these horrors!
  - daveid 14y ago
    The issue is quite difficult so I will put in "believe" in here: I believe one of the problems with peace treaties with the Palestinians is that they do not accept Israel as a state. Feel free to correct me.
adrianwaj 14y ago
Try finding a Jew in Gaza and then tell me about apartheid and religious freedom.
- edanm 14y ago
  I don't think that proves much. Conditions in Gaza are bad, and most Jews don't have any reason to go there.
  - adrianwaj 14y ago
    Just reason not to go: they'd get badly hurt or murdered if they even made it in. "Hamas says that if only Jews still were in Gaza, it would be able to stage peaceful protests. Without them, the only choice is violence." http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151386 http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151386 Okay, so Jews should go in now.
criley 14y ago
To be fair, they should have made a version from the Palestinian perspective, as well. Something tells me the Palestinians don't have 15 seconds of air raid warnings. The missiles and strike craft probably don't give much lead time at all. Maybe a few moments of odd whirring before something randomly explodes near them, and people die. So the Palestinian version should start on 00:02 instead of 00:15... The joys of American-made, American-taxpayer funded advanced strike weapons.
- lifeguard 14y ago
  Not only are the weapons USA made & designed, they are given to Israel in the form of defense aid. The USA gives Israel a $2 billion dollar credit every year to buy our weapons.
  - maratd 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aid I'm not a huge fan of foreign aid, but if you're going to give money, at least give it to a country that shares our values and has a transparent democratic process for electing government. Outside of Poland, Israel is the only country that qualifies on that list.
- maratd 14y ago
  > Something tells me the Palestinians don't have 15 seconds of air raid warnings. You're right. They have hours. Israel frequently text-messages civilians and asks them to vacate the area. Israel attacks military targets, not civilians. Military targets aren't as mobile as civilians.
  - Toshio 14y ago
    > They have hours. Israel frequently text-messages civilians and asks them to vacate the area. Can you provide a reference for this claim?
  - lifeguard 14y ago
    Wow, you should read some news. Palestinian medics: At least 11 civilians killed in Israeli airstrike in ... Minneapolis Star Tribune-1 hour ago At least 10 civilians killed in Israeli airstrike, Palestinian officials say Fox News-3 hours ago 5 women, 4 children killed in Gaza strike International -Ynetnews-1 hour ago
DodgyEggplant 14y ago
All planes and ships can land 2 miles from Gaza in Egypt and pass their civil cargo to Gaza. Unfortunately, this doesn't stop all kind of rockets to enter Gaza strip. Any other example, pls?
DodgyEggplant 14y ago
All planes and ships can land 2 miles from Gaza in Egypt and pass their civil cargo to Gaza. Unfortunately, this doesn't stop all kind of rockets to enter Gaza strip. Any other example, pls?
bitcartel 14y ago
The moderator should change the title. "I'm a teen" is not quite the same as "Right now I’m living in Tel Aviv, Israel and serving in the Israeli army." http://benjaminlang.com/about-2/ http://benjaminlang.com/about-2/
- maratd 14y ago
  Teens in Israel have to serve in the military. It is mandatory. What exactly is your point?
- benjlang 14y ago
  I'm still a teen and this I made at home...
edanm 14y ago
"This is really well made propaganda to portray Israelis as victims. They are not victims." Why can't both sides be victims? I don't really equate Israel and Hamas (and think it's a mistake to do so), but I certainly believe there are plenty of victims on both sides of this. "I personally support human rights and religious freedom." Many people do, on both 'sides' of this issue. And most of them are not evil or stupid, so you should consider whether stating so really accomplishes anything.

tboren 14y ago

Such self righteousness. The only reason Israel attacks military targets in Gaza is because it has to defend itself. There is no point in getting into a "who started it first" argument. It baffles me that the world is so ignorant towards the fact that Israel has been tolerant to decades of daily attack from Hamas terrorists in Gaza. No one protests, no one shouts, nothing. But the moment Israel decides to defend itself it becomes the target of demonizing propaganda (for example: the picture of the injured Israeli baby, with a caption that says it is a Palestinian baby injured by the IDF. Or the picture of the dead Syrian child, with the same caption). Israeli citizens ARE victims. Who are you to say they're not? They are not the only victims - war is messy and full of mistakes, but the IDF does everything in its power to not hurt innocent Gaza civillians (phone calls, pamphlets, canceling attacks altogether, etc.) I also find it interesting that many started calling Hamas terrorists Hamas "militants". It's like someone would start calling terrorists Al Qaeda militants and scold the U.S. for defending itself. Hamas is a terrorist organization and it always has been. Back in 2004 it even recognized itself as such. My point is - who are you to say that Israelis are not victims? I bet you're sitting very comfortable very far away from any missiles while you type these void remarks. Israel has a right to defend itself.

benjlang 14y ago

Call it propaganda, but I still have missiles being fired at me and family and friends every day. Hamas is specifically trying to hit civilians. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be in my place.

lifeguard 14y ago
Have you made a web page about the cluster bombs the IDF dropped on civilian areas (a war crime)?
aqme28 14y ago
No, but I would MUCH MUCH rather be an Israeli than a Palestinian in Gaza.
lifeguard 14y ago
The odd assassination aside, Israel is a democracy. You are responsible for your government just like I am for mine. Make a real peace with the Palestinians and end these horrors!
- daveid 14y ago
  The issue is quite difficult so I will put in "believe" in here: I believe one of the problems with peace treaties with the Palestinians is that they do not accept Israel as a state. Feel free to correct me.

adrianwaj 14y ago

Try finding a Jew in Gaza and then tell me about apartheid and religious freedom.

edanm 14y ago
I don't think that proves much. Conditions in Gaza are bad, and most Jews don't have any reason to go there.
- adrianwaj 14y ago
  Just reason not to go: they'd get badly hurt or murdered if they even made it in. "Hamas says that if only Jews still were in Gaza, it would be able to stage peaceful protests. Without them, the only choice is violence." http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151386 http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151386 Okay, so Jews should go in now.

criley 14y ago

To be fair, they should have made a version from the Palestinian perspective, as well. Something tells me the Palestinians don't have 15 seconds of air raid warnings. The missiles and strike craft probably don't give much lead time at all. Maybe a few moments of odd whirring before something randomly explodes near them, and people die. So the Palestinian version should start on 00:02 instead of 00:15... The joys of American-made, American-taxpayer funded advanced strike weapons.

lifeguard 14y ago
Not only are the weapons USA made & designed, they are given to Israel in the form of defense aid. The USA gives Israel a $2 billion dollar credit every year to buy our weapons.
- maratd 14y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_aid I'm not a huge fan of foreign aid, but if you're going to give money, at least give it to a country that shares our values and has a transparent democratic process for electing government. Outside of Poland, Israel is the only country that qualifies on that list.
maratd 14y ago
> Something tells me the Palestinians don't have 15 seconds of air raid warnings. You're right. They have hours. Israel frequently text-messages civilians and asks them to vacate the area. Israel attacks military targets, not civilians. Military targets aren't as mobile as civilians.
- Toshio 14y ago
  > They have hours. Israel frequently text-messages civilians and asks them to vacate the area. Can you provide a reference for this claim?
- lifeguard 14y ago
  Wow, you should read some news. Palestinian medics: At least 11 civilians killed in Israeli airstrike in ... Minneapolis Star Tribune-1 hour ago At least 10 civilians killed in Israeli airstrike, Palestinian officials say Fox News-3 hours ago 5 women, 4 children killed in Gaza strike International -Ynetnews-1 hour ago

DodgyEggplant 14y ago

All planes and ships can land 2 miles from Gaza in Egypt and pass their civil cargo to Gaza. Unfortunately, this doesn't stop all kind of rockets to enter Gaza strip. Any other example, pls?

DodgyEggplant 14y ago

All planes and ships can land 2 miles from Gaza in Egypt and pass their civil cargo to Gaza. Unfortunately, this doesn't stop all kind of rockets to enter Gaza strip. Any other example, pls?

bitcartel 14y ago

The moderator should change the title. "I'm a teen" is not quite the same as "Right now I’m living in Tel Aviv, Israel and serving in the Israeli army." http://benjaminlang.com/about-2/ http://benjaminlang.com/about-2/

maratd 14y ago
Teens in Israel have to serve in the military. It is mandatory. What exactly is your point?
benjlang 14y ago
I'm still a teen and this I made at home...

edanm 14y ago

"This is really well made propaganda to portray Israelis as victims. They are not victims." Why can't both sides be victims? I don't really equate Israel and Hamas (and think it's a mistake to do so), but I certainly believe there are plenty of victims on both sides of this. "I personally support human rights and religious freedom." Many people do, on both 'sides' of this issue. And most of them are not evil or stupid, so you should consider whether stating so really accomplishes anything.