4 ms·

I wish you could sue the muppets slinging mud around on Twitter etc.

by keeran 14y ago

petercooper 14y ago
It's tricky. I know most of the people involved on both sides and you may be surprised to learn almost all of them are decent, every day people, and not brogrammers, militant feminists, or typical 'argument on Twitter' types. There have been a lot of crossed wires, misinterpretations, and faux pas here which probably wouldn't have occurred in real life (or even video). Online communications, especially on Twitter, is so woefully inadequate when dealing with social issues :-(
- keithpeter 14y ago
  "It's tricky. I know most of the people involved on both sides and you may be surprised to learn almost all of them are decent, every day people, and not brogrammers, militant feminists, or typical 'argument on Twitter' types." But the net result is loss of coding/development related activity in Manchester, sponsor getting wet feet, loss of credibility for future events &c Seems a shame. Note for US readers: UK is small island(s) and most of the fun stuff happens in London (my perception).
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > Note for US readers: UK is small island(s) and most of the fun stuff happens in London (my perception). Yeah, the UK really needs events like this, because it has (in my perception, as an American) been bypassed by a lot of the latest technological advances, in terms of business opportunities. The only big British technology company I can name off the top of my head is ARM, and that's not one that your average consumer would be familiar with anyway. And ARM was founded 20+ years ago - I can't think of any recent British startups or software companies that have achieved worldwide fame.
    - guard-of-terra 14y ago
      Umm, isn't last.fm younger?
      - r4vik 14y ago
        Datasift
  - petercooper 14y ago
    Oh, totally. But I think those are separate issues. The curious thing is it was the first serious attempt to have what I'd call a 'full scale' Ruby conference in England (other events like Ruby Manor do a great job but are unique experiences or unconference type events). Scotland Ruby Conference has done pretty well, but it's very odd that England (and London, in particularly) hasn't had any success with a large Ruby event given the huge market.
    - lazyatom 14y ago
      This is orthogonal to the main point of this thread, but since Ruby Manor has been mentioned, and Peter doesn't read my blog (which is fair enough): http://interblah.net/ruby-manor-is-not-an-unconference http://interblah.net/ruby-manor-is-not-an-unconference Just for completeness sake, there was also a successful RailsConf Europe in London, and a well-received Rails Underground too. I therefore assume that 'full scale' must mean something quite specific. Anyway, as I said, orthogonal. I'm aware of and not fan of the gravitational well that London influences, and definitely agree that it would be great to have events all over the UK. It's a shame that BritRuby isn't going ahead, whatever the reasons.
      - petercooper 14y ago
        I subscribe to almost no Ruby blogs anymore! :-) But I had seen your post once before. In my defence I said "or" and Ruby Manor has seemed to me, wrongly or rightly, to be in the "unique experience" group (where I'd also include JSConf and RubyFringe). By 'full scale' I did mean something reasonably specific, yes: a typically annual multi-day event with at least a few hundred attendees, a large numbers of sessions (or a very strong single track) focused on the topic at hand, a commercial presence or influence, and a sizeable number of well known speakers or attendees. RubyConf, Scotland Ruby Conference and RubyKaigi would be examples of events like that. I don't have anything against smaller or more creative conferences (and frequently support them!) but they tend to emphasize socializing rather than business. With a family and a business to run, by necessity I go to conferences 50% for business and 40% for networking, and 10% for socializing. So if I can't do business there, it's a really hard sell in terms of time and leaving my wife stranded with the kids. This might be unfair to Ruby Manor, and sorry if it is, but I got the impression Ruby Manor would be more like a fun day out for my personal enjoyment than one I can justify to my wife, daughter, business and the tax man. That's really the line I'm drawing. (I had forgotten Rails Underground so thanks for bringing it up. It did tick a lot of boxes - just a shame it didn't run again(!))
amurmann 14y ago
I wish you couldn't sue anyone for anything they say or any information they distribute. May it be a bullshit opinion or nuclear launch codes. Free speech is under attack enough. We don't need to start suing people because they voice their potentially oversensitive concerns about equality. If that happens, we soon won't be able to say anything without fear of being suit!

I wish you could sue the muppets slinging mud around on Twitter etc.

by keeran 14y ago

I wish you could sue the muppets slinging mud around on Twitter etc.

It's tricky. I know most of the people involved on both sides and you may be surprised to learn almost all of them are decent, every day people, and not brogrammers, militant feminists, or typical 'argument on Twitter' types. There have been a lot of crossed wires, misinterpretations, and faux pas here which probably wouldn't have occurred in real life (or even video). Online communications, especially on Twitter, is so woefully inadequate when dealing with social issues :-(

keithpeter 14y ago
"It's tricky. I know most of the people involved on both sides and you may be surprised to learn almost all of them are decent, every day people, and not brogrammers, militant feminists, or typical 'argument on Twitter' types." But the net result is loss of coding/development related activity in Manchester, sponsor getting wet feet, loss of credibility for future events &c Seems a shame. Note for US readers: UK is small island(s) and most of the fun stuff happens in London (my perception).
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > Note for US readers: UK is small island(s) and most of the fun stuff happens in London (my perception). Yeah, the UK really needs events like this, because it has (in my perception, as an American) been bypassed by a lot of the latest technological advances, in terms of business opportunities. The only big British technology company I can name off the top of my head is ARM, and that's not one that your average consumer would be familiar with anyway. And ARM was founded 20+ years ago - I can't think of any recent British startups or software companies that have achieved worldwide fame.
  - guard-of-terra 14y ago
    Umm, isn't last.fm younger?
    - r4vik 14y ago
      Datasift
- petercooper 14y ago
  Oh, totally. But I think those are separate issues. The curious thing is it was the first serious attempt to have what I'd call a 'full scale' Ruby conference in England (other events like Ruby Manor do a great job but are unique experiences or unconference type events). Scotland Ruby Conference has done pretty well, but it's very odd that England (and London, in particularly) hasn't had any success with a large Ruby event given the huge market.
  - lazyatom 14y ago
    This is orthogonal to the main point of this thread, but since Ruby Manor has been mentioned, and Peter doesn't read my blog (which is fair enough): http://interblah.net/ruby-manor-is-not-an-unconference http://interblah.net/ruby-manor-is-not-an-unconference Just for completeness sake, there was also a successful RailsConf Europe in London, and a well-received Rails Underground too. I therefore assume that 'full scale' must mean something quite specific. Anyway, as I said, orthogonal. I'm aware of and not fan of the gravitational well that London influences, and definitely agree that it would be great to have events all over the UK. It's a shame that BritRuby isn't going ahead, whatever the reasons.
    - petercooper 14y ago
      I subscribe to almost no Ruby blogs anymore! :-) But I had seen your post once before. In my defence I said "or" and Ruby Manor has seemed to me, wrongly or rightly, to be in the "unique experience" group (where I'd also include JSConf and RubyFringe). By 'full scale' I did mean something reasonably specific, yes: a typically annual multi-day event with at least a few hundred attendees, a large numbers of sessions (or a very strong single track) focused on the topic at hand, a commercial presence or influence, and a sizeable number of well known speakers or attendees. RubyConf, Scotland Ruby Conference and RubyKaigi would be examples of events like that. I don't have anything against smaller or more creative conferences (and frequently support them!) but they tend to emphasize socializing rather than business. With a family and a business to run, by necessity I go to conferences 50% for business and 40% for networking, and 10% for socializing. So if I can't do business there, it's a really hard sell in terms of time and leaving my wife stranded with the kids. This might be unfair to Ruby Manor, and sorry if it is, but I got the impression Ruby Manor would be more like a fun day out for my personal enjoyment than one I can justify to my wife, daughter, business and the tax man. That's really the line I'm drawing. (I had forgotten Rails Underground so thanks for bringing it up. It did tick a lot of boxes - just a shame it didn't run again(!))

amurmann 14y ago

I wish you couldn't sue anyone for anything they say or any information they distribute. May it be a bullshit opinion or nuclear launch codes. Free speech is under attack enough. We don't need to start suing people because they voice their potentially oversensitive concerns about equality. If that happens, we soon won't be able to say anything without fear of being suit!