4 ms·

The phone numbers in these data sets are weird and problematic, but the equivalent data in the US is usually public, and available for free to any registered ca

by tptacek 6mo ago

The phone numbers in these data sets are weird and problematic, but the equivalent data in the US is usually public, and available for free to any registered candidate.

Teever 6mo ago
It appears that they registered as a party to get access to the data and them disseminated it publicly through a vibecoded app. While this data may generally be public in the US, it usually isn't in Canada, and there's an expectation that parties don't publish the data and it is seeded to detect that. A bigger problem is that people in Canada sign up for this list with the expectation that this data will remain reasonably private so now with this leak you have people who were willing to share their personal information to participate in the democratic process now afraid that their domestic abusers will be able to find them.[0] That really sucks. There's also the awkward aspect of this in that the Alberta separatists are seemingly backed by American interests. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-councillor-concerned-about-domestic-violence-survivors-after-private-voter-information-exposed-9.7186338 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-counci...
- pavel_lishin 6mo ago
  > and it is seeded to detect that. Do you mean that there are "paper town"-like entries in the dataset to make it obvious when one has leaked?
  - giarc 6mo ago
    Yes, Elections Alberta provided the list to the Republican Party of Alberta. Whenever they do this, they salt the list with fake names so that if it gets leaked, they can then determine which copy was leaked. That's how we know this republican group provided it to this "Centurion Group"
- dblohm7 6mo ago
  I mean, it's not really optional for Canadians _not_ to sign up for the list. It's the official list of electors. If you're a citizen, you're going to end up on the voter list one way or another.
  - Teever 6mo ago
    I was under the impression that this was the optional list that you sign up for with the CRA when you file your taxes, is that not the case?
    - thunderfork 6mo ago
      The data sharing between the CRA and Elections Canada is optional, but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise.
      - MichaelBurjack 6mo ago
        Being on the electors list is optional, is something you can opt-in to (and opt-out of), and is not required in order to vote in Alberta. There are many reasons an individual may choose to not be on the list (eg. domestic abuse situations).
      - gucci-on-fleek 6mo ago
        > but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise Technically true, but you can register at the polling booth on the day of the election, and there's a checkbox that lets you opt out of saving your data in the database. [0] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977
  - gucci-on-fleek 6mo ago
    It actually is optional. You should always be able to opt out of registering for it, and if you are registered and don't want to be, there's an official form that you can fill out to get removed. See my other comment [0] for a few more details. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977
nottorp 6mo ago
Why are candidates allowed to spam voters in the US?
- tptacek 6mo ago
  Pesky First Amendment.
  - mschuster91 6mo ago
    Sending mail to or cold calling voters, okay, that should by all definitions be covered by the First Amendment. Verifying voter rolls, okay, reasonable. But there is no justification for providing voter roll data to the wide public in a way that is machine readable. Or to provide these data to third parties (including political parties, candidates or PACs). Candidates and parties can use USPS Bulk Mail, they do not need to know the names of potential voters to exercise their right to free speech. People interested to check if they or someone they know are on the voter rolls (or not, in the case of suspected/possible fraud) can do so in person or by mail.
    - xienze 6mo ago
      > But there is no justification for providing voter roll data to the wide public in a way that is machine readable. Why not? It's considered public information, just like political donation records.
      - pessimizer 6mo ago
        > Why not? Because I don't want it to be. Why so? > It's considered public information The question is why is it considered public information. > just like political donation records. In what way?
        gojomo 6mo ago
        Election integrity requires as much of the mechanics of elections to be transparent to all observers, including politically-disfavord groups, as possible. If the voter rolls are state secrets, only available to approved insiders, how can you know they're not filled with regime sockpuppets?

by tptacek 6mo ago

The phone numbers in these data sets are weird and problematic, but the equivalent data in the US is usually public, and available for free to any registered candidate.

Teever 6mo ago

It appears that they registered as a party to get access to the data and them disseminated it publicly through a vibecoded app. While this data may generally be public in the US, it usually isn't in Canada, and there's an expectation that parties don't publish the data and it is seeded to detect that. A bigger problem is that people in Canada sign up for this list with the expectation that this data will remain reasonably private so now with this leak you have people who were willing to share their personal information to participate in the democratic process now afraid that their domestic abusers will be able to find them.[0] That really sucks. There's also the awkward aspect of this in that the Alberta separatists are seemingly backed by American interests. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-councillor-concerned-about-domestic-violence-survivors-after-private-voter-information-exposed-9.7186338 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-city-counci...

pavel_lishin 6mo ago
> and it is seeded to detect that. Do you mean that there are "paper town"-like entries in the dataset to make it obvious when one has leaked?
- giarc 6mo ago
  Yes, Elections Alberta provided the list to the Republican Party of Alberta. Whenever they do this, they salt the list with fake names so that if it gets leaked, they can then determine which copy was leaked. That's how we know this republican group provided it to this "Centurion Group"
dblohm7 6mo ago
I mean, it's not really optional for Canadians _not_ to sign up for the list. It's the official list of electors. If you're a citizen, you're going to end up on the voter list one way or another.
- Teever 6mo ago
  I was under the impression that this was the optional list that you sign up for with the CRA when you file your taxes, is that not the case?
  - thunderfork 6mo ago
    The data sharing between the CRA and Elections Canada is optional, but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise.
    - MichaelBurjack 6mo ago
      Being on the electors list is optional, is something you can opt-in to (and opt-out of), and is not required in order to vote in Alberta. There are many reasons an individual may choose to not be on the list (eg. domestic abuse situations).
    - gucci-on-fleek 6mo ago
      > but if you want to vote, you've got to be registered - whether via the CRA or otherwise Technically true, but you can register at the polling booth on the day of the election, and there's a checkbox that lets you opt out of saving your data in the database. [0] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977
- gucci-on-fleek 6mo ago
  It actually is optional. You should always be able to opt out of registering for it, and if you are registered and don't want to be, there's an official form that you can fill out to get removed. See my other comment [0] for a few more details. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48015977

nottorp 6mo ago

Why are candidates allowed to spam voters in the US?

tptacek 6mo ago
Pesky First Amendment.
- mschuster91 6mo ago
  Sending mail to or cold calling voters, okay, that should by all definitions be covered by the First Amendment. Verifying voter rolls, okay, reasonable. But there is no justification for providing voter roll data to the wide public in a way that is machine readable. Or to provide these data to third parties (including political parties, candidates or PACs). Candidates and parties can use USPS Bulk Mail, they do not need to know the names of potential voters to exercise their right to free speech. People interested to check if they or someone they know are on the voter rolls (or not, in the case of suspected/possible fraud) can do so in person or by mail.
  - xienze 6mo ago
    > But there is no justification for providing voter roll data to the wide public in a way that is machine readable. Why not? It's considered public information, just like political donation records.
    - pessimizer 6mo ago
      > Why not? Because I don't want it to be. Why so? > It's considered public information The question is why is it considered public information. > just like political donation records. In what way?
      - gojomo 6mo ago
        Election integrity requires as much of the mechanics of elections to be transparent to all observers, including politically-disfavord groups, as possible. If the voter rolls are state secrets, only available to approved insiders, how can you know they're not filled with regime sockpuppets?