5 ms·

I'm not convinced. Apple's patents haven't stopped me from being creative. No one has asked me not to design using rounded corners. How about you? I bet not. W

I'm not convinced. Apple's patents haven't stopped me from being creative. No one has asked me not to design using rounded corners. How about you? I bet not. When you buy Apple you're not just buying hardware or software. You're buying into a ecosystem and that ecosystem works really well! Now if Apple's ecosystem doesn't suit your needs then you're still free to not use it or jailbreak your iStuff. I keep hearing this stuff and I just don't see where we lost freedom. You don't have to buy music and videos on iTunes to put it into your iStuff. Jailbreaking, though frowned upon, is completely legal now and no one will hassle you for it. Cell phome contracts? Well that's not new or specific to Apple and though it's a bummer I'm happy for it because I don't have $500 for a phone and this "freedom" everyone keeps yammering about isn't worth the extra $300 to me. There's no loss of freedom going on here. Everything is the same as it ever was in a new form and context. Everyone loves to root for the underdog and tear down the establishment. I doubt most of us have ever really been truly stifled by patents and if we have I'm willing to bet that while you're the little guy you'll rail against them and if/when you "make it" you'll be hoarding and defending them like it's going out of style. I'm sure most people won't like what I've said. I'm a pragmatist. Idealism is great and I get the sentiment but in the end we're just not living in the world as it "should be", we live in the world as it is.

Eduard 14y ago
↑ Apple fanboy logic
- bpatrianakos 14y ago
  Great argument. This whole "fanboy" retort is total BS. That's my logic and my preference for or against Apple has nothing to do with it. Calling someone a fanboy is not an argument and no one can take you seriously once you say it. That's a conversation stopper. You can't prove or disprove it and all intelligent discourse goes out the window once it's been said. You could have used any number of arguments to try to persuade me the other way or prove me wrong but instead you used the conversional equivalent of "oh yeah, well you're a homo".
- marblar 14y ago
  ↑Ad hominem logic
  - bpatrianakos 14y ago
    Really? This is no better. How about pedantic logic? Or avoiding making a real argument logic? Or cheap way to get up votes logic? Piling on logic? Uncomstructive comment logic? Pedantic logic? If you want to disagree then do it. What you're doing here is trying to marginalize me instead of actually making an argument. This used to be a place where we could share our opinions and have constructive conversations and debates. Now you just get downvoted if you don't support the hive mind's opinion and what used to be called an unconstructive comment is applauded (exceptions are made, however, in cases where where the herd disagrees). Edit: Remember what I said about all intelligent discourse going out the window once the "fanboy" retort has been put out there? Well, here's the proof.
    - olgeni 14y ago
      life←{ ↑1 ⍵∨.^3 4=+/,¯1 0 1∘.⊖¯1 0 1∘.⌽⊂⍵ } ↑ Game of life
mikeash 14y ago
> Now if Apple's ecosystem doesn't suit your needs then you're still free to not use it or jailbreak your iStuff. Oh good, I hadn't realized that a proper jailbreak for iOS 6 on the 4S was out yet. Can you point me to the URL for it?
mmmooo 14y ago
You can't call the ability to jailbreak "free to do so", any more than a prison cell is "free to escape out of". Sure jailbreaks exist, but not for all devices, and not without significant efforts by non-apple personnel (and significant effort from apple personnel to stop said 'freedom').
- bpatrianakos 14y ago
  You're factually and practically correct but the problem here is that you seem to be operating under the assumption that your preferences are shared by everyone else or should be shared by everyone else and that's where I think you're wrong. Apple has made a decision to operate in a locked-down way so they can control the experience. And as much as people want to say its some evil plan to make a bajillion dollars the simpler and more plausible answer is because being in control of the experience actually makes the platform better for its users and the monopoly is just aside effect of that. People buy iDevices because they work well for them, not because they lack the freedom to choose something else and certainly not because of lock-in as many would have us believe. Yeah, it takes effort to jailbreak your device but so what? It's not meant to be jail broken. Your prison analogy is not a good one at all. It's more like the freedom to work on your car. It's like a person who really likes Volkswagen Jettas and buys one but wants a spoiler, racing stripes, and a V8 engine. Volkswagen isn't going to promote you doing that nor will they help you but you're still free to do it if you want to put in the effort. And if not, then choose another car. Apple does things a certain way and there are pros and cons to it. Google and others do things differently and they have their pros and cons. But in the end no one has taken your freedom away. You may want an iDevice with the benefits of Android "freedom" (freedom is in quotes because in this context it's subjective) but if you got that then it would no longer be an Apple product because you've taken away the very thing that makes Apple's iStuff, iStuff. All of these arguments just smack of "I think I know what's best for everyone"-ism and "I'm entitled to XYZ and I don't get it then that means I have no freedom"-ism. Right now youve got the freedom to choose between Android, Windows Phone, and iOS (I know there are others but let's not be pedantic about it). You're free to choose any one of them or none of them. If you want to mishmash features of all three then you'll have to do that itself because no one is obligated to create a piece of technology that exactly suits your every desire. You pick what suits you best and one thing you are entitled to do is complain about it. But if the market as a whole doesn't agree then you probably won't get it. What I'm really saying is that you can criticize and complain and lobby for the things that you want all day long and that's fine but don't exaggerate and start saying you've lost your freedom because you haven't. This is the real world where the only way to even be able to obtain a thing that does most of what you want is for the company making it to be able to profit off of it and that means trade offs and decisions that you may not agree with but are nonetheless best for a certain demographic for which the thing is made for.
angersock 14y ago
I'm sure most people won't like what I've said. I'm a pragmatist. Idealism is great and I get the sentiment but in the end we're just not living in the world as it "should be", we live in the world as it is. That's a very depressing way of looking at things. :(
- vitalique 14y ago
  Cheer up. It's only depressing for idealists.
  - bpatrianakos 14y ago
    Absolutely! It's not to say that things can never change for the better, it's just to say that we just can't have everything we want and if we do get everything we want it'll most likely come at the expense of someone else not getting something they want. That's the pragmatism I'm talking about in this context. I'm no idealist but I have to admit that their naive, pie in the sky notions are what makes the world a better place. They never work out, but they do take us a bit of they way there. Repeat enough times and you end up with something real special.
alexpopescu 14y ago
There are multiple points you make here, some I agree with some I don't. > Apple's patents haven't stopped me from being creative. No one has asked me not to design using rounded corners. How about you? I bet not. Patents have stopped people from being creative. I don't think it's a matter of stopping you or me, but a more general perspetive. I'm no specialist in patents, nor is it a topic that I like talking about, but imho a critical issue is with their generality: rounded corners, mouse clicks, page turns seem like very very wide ideas. > When you buy Apple you're not just buying hardware or software. You're buying into a ecosystem and that ecosystem works really well! Now if Apple's ecosystem doesn't suit your needs then you're still free to not use it or jailbreak your iStuff. I do buy Apple products because they fit my needs and their current limitations are not over the threshold I feel comfortable with. Now. But ideally I'd prefer to buy into an ecosystem that is not closed. I'd like to know that in the future when a shift occurs I'll be able to get my things and move to what fits the needs I have at that time. A related question is: should I complain or not about it if I already chose to buy into it? Me belief is that by expressing ourselves and not being complacent with the status quo we are able to influence things.

Eduard 14y ago

↑ Apple fanboy logic

bpatrianakos 14y ago
Great argument. This whole "fanboy" retort is total BS. That's my logic and my preference for or against Apple has nothing to do with it. Calling someone a fanboy is not an argument and no one can take you seriously once you say it. That's a conversation stopper. You can't prove or disprove it and all intelligent discourse goes out the window once it's been said. You could have used any number of arguments to try to persuade me the other way or prove me wrong but instead you used the conversional equivalent of "oh yeah, well you're a homo".
marblar 14y ago
↑Ad hominem logic
- bpatrianakos 14y ago
  Really? This is no better. How about pedantic logic? Or avoiding making a real argument logic? Or cheap way to get up votes logic? Piling on logic? Uncomstructive comment logic? Pedantic logic? If you want to disagree then do it. What you're doing here is trying to marginalize me instead of actually making an argument. This used to be a place where we could share our opinions and have constructive conversations and debates. Now you just get downvoted if you don't support the hive mind's opinion and what used to be called an unconstructive comment is applauded (exceptions are made, however, in cases where where the herd disagrees). Edit: Remember what I said about all intelligent discourse going out the window once the "fanboy" retort has been put out there? Well, here's the proof.
  - olgeni 14y ago
    life←{ ↑1 ⍵∨.^3 4=+/,¯1 0 1∘.⊖¯1 0 1∘.⌽⊂⍵ } ↑ Game of life

mikeash 14y ago

> Now if Apple's ecosystem doesn't suit your needs then you're still free to not use it or jailbreak your iStuff. Oh good, I hadn't realized that a proper jailbreak for iOS 6 on the 4S was out yet. Can you point me to the URL for it?

mmmooo 14y ago

You can't call the ability to jailbreak "free to do so", any more than a prison cell is "free to escape out of". Sure jailbreaks exist, but not for all devices, and not without significant efforts by non-apple personnel (and significant effort from apple personnel to stop said 'freedom').

bpatrianakos 14y ago
You're factually and practically correct but the problem here is that you seem to be operating under the assumption that your preferences are shared by everyone else or should be shared by everyone else and that's where I think you're wrong. Apple has made a decision to operate in a locked-down way so they can control the experience. And as much as people want to say its some evil plan to make a bajillion dollars the simpler and more plausible answer is because being in control of the experience actually makes the platform better for its users and the monopoly is just aside effect of that. People buy iDevices because they work well for them, not because they lack the freedom to choose something else and certainly not because of lock-in as many would have us believe. Yeah, it takes effort to jailbreak your device but so what? It's not meant to be jail broken. Your prison analogy is not a good one at all. It's more like the freedom to work on your car. It's like a person who really likes Volkswagen Jettas and buys one but wants a spoiler, racing stripes, and a V8 engine. Volkswagen isn't going to promote you doing that nor will they help you but you're still free to do it if you want to put in the effort. And if not, then choose another car. Apple does things a certain way and there are pros and cons to it. Google and others do things differently and they have their pros and cons. But in the end no one has taken your freedom away. You may want an iDevice with the benefits of Android "freedom" (freedom is in quotes because in this context it's subjective) but if you got that then it would no longer be an Apple product because you've taken away the very thing that makes Apple's iStuff, iStuff. All of these arguments just smack of "I think I know what's best for everyone"-ism and "I'm entitled to XYZ and I don't get it then that means I have no freedom"-ism. Right now youve got the freedom to choose between Android, Windows Phone, and iOS (I know there are others but let's not be pedantic about it). You're free to choose any one of them or none of them. If you want to mishmash features of all three then you'll have to do that itself because no one is obligated to create a piece of technology that exactly suits your every desire. You pick what suits you best and one thing you are entitled to do is complain about it. But if the market as a whole doesn't agree then you probably won't get it. What I'm really saying is that you can criticize and complain and lobby for the things that you want all day long and that's fine but don't exaggerate and start saying you've lost your freedom because you haven't. This is the real world where the only way to even be able to obtain a thing that does most of what you want is for the company making it to be able to profit off of it and that means trade offs and decisions that you may not agree with but are nonetheless best for a certain demographic for which the thing is made for.

angersock 14y ago

I'm sure most people won't like what I've said. I'm a pragmatist. Idealism is great and I get the sentiment but in the end we're just not living in the world as it "should be", we live in the world as it is. That's a very depressing way of looking at things. :(

vitalique 14y ago
Cheer up. It's only depressing for idealists.
- bpatrianakos 14y ago
  Absolutely! It's not to say that things can never change for the better, it's just to say that we just can't have everything we want and if we do get everything we want it'll most likely come at the expense of someone else not getting something they want. That's the pragmatism I'm talking about in this context. I'm no idealist but I have to admit that their naive, pie in the sky notions are what makes the world a better place. They never work out, but they do take us a bit of they way there. Repeat enough times and you end up with something real special.

alexpopescu 14y ago

There are multiple points you make here, some I agree with some I don't. > Apple's patents haven't stopped me from being creative. No one has asked me not to design using rounded corners. How about you? I bet not. Patents have stopped people from being creative. I don't think it's a matter of stopping you or me, but a more general perspetive. I'm no specialist in patents, nor is it a topic that I like talking about, but imho a critical issue is with their generality: rounded corners, mouse clicks, page turns seem like very very wide ideas. > When you buy Apple you're not just buying hardware or software. You're buying into a ecosystem and that ecosystem works really well! Now if Apple's ecosystem doesn't suit your needs then you're still free to not use it or jailbreak your iStuff. I do buy Apple products because they fit my needs and their current limitations are not over the threshold I feel comfortable with. Now. But ideally I'd prefer to buy into an ecosystem that is not closed. I'd like to know that in the future when a shift occurs I'll be able to get my things and move to what fits the needs I have at that time. A related question is: should I complain or not about it if I already chose to buy into it? Me belief is that by expressing ourselves and not being complacent with the status quo we are able to influence things.