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I'm pretty sure the piece is a commentary on the recent phenomenon of people of a right-wing political orientation hanging up the England flag everywhere, to th

I'm pretty sure the piece is a commentary on the recent phenomenon of people of a right-wing political orientation hanging up the England flag everywhere, to the consternation of local governments who have to spend money taking them down. From a British perspective there's no ambiguity, flag shagging is a right-wing activity.

rjinman 6mo ago
Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.
- danw1979 6mo ago
  He’s a British artist, the sculpture is in London and the phenomenon of raising of St George’s Cross on every lamppost on every roundabout is a recent initiative of the British right. Most people will be linking the statement of this sculpture to this activity. (I’m more likely to see the white rose of the House of York in “opposition” to the flag shaggers than a rainbow or anything else, in my neck of the woods, but there’s only a few of these flying) I do like the wider interpretation though, that any ideology can blind you.
  - 21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - matthewmacleod 6mo ago
      No, you were merely wrong.
  - tim333 6mo ago
    I live in central London where the the statue is and I think can confidently say there are more other flags than St George cross ones. Personally I kind of thought of Russia which is about the only lot marching off to war with Russian and Z flags all over. The St George lot mostly just moan about immigrants.
- rjinman 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Smaug123 6mo ago
    (What you call an "objective fact" here is - as you say - your report of your personal experience. Everyone else would probably use a word more like "subjective".)
    - boxed 6mo ago
      https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewnwgnqj2qo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewnwgnqj2qo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Trans%2B_Pride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Trans%2B_Pride I'm seeing a lot of flags.
      - datsci_est_2015 6mo ago
        Can’t help but notice the difference in sentiment between the flag that represents a people and a flag that represents a nation, especially historically.
        boxed 6mo ago
        Hmm? Which is which? Is this one of those British things people from normal countries don't understand? Like the difference between United Kingdom and Great Britain.
        datsci_est_2015 6mo ago
        Glad you asked! Perhaps I should have used the term “sovereign state”, as that’s more precise, even though when most people use the colloquial term “nation” (as in “nationalism”) they’re referring to a sovereign state. A sovereign state has borders they can enforce to their own discretion (political gridlock notwithstanding), a stable and well-defined (non-transient) population, a single recognized government (both internally and externally), and ability to conduct foreign relations without being stopped by force or decree. So, with that more precise definition out of the way, you can recognize that the flags in your links do not represent sovereign states, but rather peoples - who, coincidentally, are often fighting for their rights and freedoms. Elsewhere in the thread are mentions of nation flags, like the Union Jack, which represent a sovereign state, and are instead often associated with national identity, xenophobia and oppression. Hope that helps!
- vkou 6mo ago
  Allright, I'll bite. Could you tell me if there's any meaningful distinction between someone hanging a Ukranian flag and a... Russian Federation flag? Circa 2026, do those flags stand for something, when hanging outside of either of those countries? If they do, what do they stand for, and what would someone hanging one, versus the other, be communicating?
- rjinman 6mo ago
  It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad”. So many people here making this argument. It’s beyond parody, yet really so predictable. Amazing lack of self awareness. I thought this place was more rational than Reddit, but apparently not!
  - Ukv 6mo ago
    > It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad” The sculpture's message isn't "flags are bad" - it's using a flag as a metaphor for nationalism/blind patriotism (based on the rest of the statue, the location chosen, what it's a response to, and Banksy's other works).
inglor_cz 6mo ago
Every single left-wing march flies a lot of flags as well, only they are different flags. Political movements in general don't seem to be particularly immune to flag shagging, only the colors vary a lot. But I am pretty sure that Banksy means right-wing flag worship as well. He is a master of "provocative conformism" and wouldn't produce anything that would get him into a real risk of controversy. His art is very fine-tuned to the sensibilities of the English and American chattering class; same recipe for success as Paul Krugman or Malcolm Gladwell.
- carefulfungi 6mo ago
  Choosing a traditionally suited man as the standard bearer adds a formal banality to the blindness (to my eyes).
- zarzavat 6mo ago
  I suppose it's true that the left-wing equivalent is the Palestinian flag, or the centrist equivalent is the Ukrainian flag, however this usually comes in the form of a sticker or the odd flag flown from a house window here and there, rather than a row of flags hung from every lamp post on a street. Quantity has quality all of its own. Although many different causes use flags for promotion, the obsession that certain elements of the English right have with the English flag is at a completely different level.
  - inglor_cz 6mo ago
    Not in the UK, but I was surprised by the abundance of Palestinian flags in the Basque country, Spain, last year. There were definitely places where you had 7-8 of them in your view while walking random streets.
    - datsci_est_2015 6mo ago
      Not surprising to me as much, given their separatist sentiments under the yoke of the fascist Franco not too long ago at all.
  - 6mo ago

rjinman 6mo ago

Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.

danw1979 6mo ago
He’s a British artist, the sculpture is in London and the phenomenon of raising of St George’s Cross on every lamppost on every roundabout is a recent initiative of the British right. Most people will be linking the statement of this sculpture to this activity. (I’m more likely to see the white rose of the House of York in “opposition” to the flag shaggers than a rainbow or anything else, in my neck of the woods, but there’s only a few of these flying) I do like the wider interpretation though, that any ideology can blind you.
- 21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - matthewmacleod 6mo ago
    No, you were merely wrong.
- tim333 6mo ago
  I live in central London where the the statue is and I think can confidently say there are more other flags than St George cross ones. Personally I kind of thought of Russia which is about the only lot marching off to war with Russian and Z flags all over. The St George lot mostly just moan about immigrants.
rjinman 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Smaug123 6mo ago
  (What you call an "objective fact" here is - as you say - your report of your personal experience. Everyone else would probably use a word more like "subjective".)
  - boxed 6mo ago
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewnwgnqj2qo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cewnwgnqj2qo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Trans%2B_Pride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Trans%2B_Pride I'm seeing a lot of flags.
    - datsci_est_2015 6mo ago
      Can’t help but notice the difference in sentiment between the flag that represents a people and a flag that represents a nation, especially historically.
      - boxed 6mo ago
        Hmm? Which is which? Is this one of those British things people from normal countries don't understand? Like the difference between United Kingdom and Great Britain.
        datsci_est_2015 6mo ago
        Glad you asked! Perhaps I should have used the term “sovereign state”, as that’s more precise, even though when most people use the colloquial term “nation” (as in “nationalism”) they’re referring to a sovereign state. A sovereign state has borders they can enforce to their own discretion (political gridlock notwithstanding), a stable and well-defined (non-transient) population, a single recognized government (both internally and externally), and ability to conduct foreign relations without being stopped by force or decree. So, with that more precise definition out of the way, you can recognize that the flags in your links do not represent sovereign states, but rather peoples - who, coincidentally, are often fighting for their rights and freedoms. Elsewhere in the thread are mentions of nation flags, like the Union Jack, which represent a sovereign state, and are instead often associated with national identity, xenophobia and oppression. Hope that helps!
vkou 6mo ago
Allright, I'll bite. Could you tell me if there's any meaningful distinction between someone hanging a Ukranian flag and a... Russian Federation flag? Circa 2026, do those flags stand for something, when hanging outside of either of those countries? If they do, what do they stand for, and what would someone hanging one, versus the other, be communicating?
rjinman 6mo ago
It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad”. So many people here making this argument. It’s beyond parody, yet really so predictable. Amazing lack of self awareness. I thought this place was more rational than Reddit, but apparently not!
- Ukv 6mo ago
  > It’s amazing how everyone thinks this sculpture’s message doesn’t apply to them. “My side’s flags are different, it’s the other side’s flags that are bad” The sculpture's message isn't "flags are bad" - it's using a flag as a metaphor for nationalism/blind patriotism (based on the rest of the statue, the location chosen, what it's a response to, and Banksy's other works).

inglor_cz 6mo ago

Every single left-wing march flies a lot of flags as well, only they are different flags. Political movements in general don't seem to be particularly immune to flag shagging, only the colors vary a lot. But I am pretty sure that Banksy means right-wing flag worship as well. He is a master of "provocative conformism" and wouldn't produce anything that would get him into a real risk of controversy. His art is very fine-tuned to the sensibilities of the English and American chattering class; same recipe for success as Paul Krugman or Malcolm Gladwell.

carefulfungi 6mo ago
Choosing a traditionally suited man as the standard bearer adds a formal banality to the blindness (to my eyes).
zarzavat 6mo ago
I suppose it's true that the left-wing equivalent is the Palestinian flag, or the centrist equivalent is the Ukrainian flag, however this usually comes in the form of a sticker or the odd flag flown from a house window here and there, rather than a row of flags hung from every lamp post on a street. Quantity has quality all of its own. Although many different causes use flags for promotion, the obsession that certain elements of the English right have with the English flag is at a completely different level.
- inglor_cz 6mo ago
  Not in the UK, but I was surprised by the abundance of Palestinian flags in the Basque country, Spain, last year. There were definitely places where you had 7-8 of them in your view while walking random streets.
  - datsci_est_2015 6mo ago
    Not surprising to me as much, given their separatist sentiments under the yoke of the fascist Franco not too long ago at all.
- 6mo ago