4 ms·

This is a well documented issue, TUI vs. windows. Back in the 90s when most SAP systems switched from AS/400 terminals to Windows NT, people reported massive l

by keyle 5mo ago

This is a well documented issue, TUI vs. windows. Back in the 90s when most SAP systems switched from AS/400 terminals to Windows NT, people reported massive losses in productivity. I've never worked on SAP, my mother did. And basically, she went from a fully tabular, function-key based oriented workflow, to holding a mouse, moving around and clicking a lot (tabbing and F keys were lost for many functions). She showed me how she could go from ESC ESC F4 F3 TAB TAB and she was across the whole system a super speed. And this was a terminal, not the actual system! The short of the story is this Windows based application work best for discoverability and new users Terminal based applications work best for faster, memory based navigation and power users.

orbital-decay 5mo ago
That's a problem with the specific GUI, not GUI as a concept. Good GUI frameworks should be built for predictability and keyboard-driven fast paths, and have this included by default so you don't have to make these decisions for each app. In fact, all successful applications for professionals/power users are built with fast paths in mind. Even Microsoft's ribbon which gets a lot of hate for some reason is an example of that, it's keyboard-driven, customizable, and discoverable at the same time.
- chihuahua 5mo ago
  In fact, just about everything in Windows (not apps, since those can be created by 3rd party developers who may or may not care, but the OS) can be operated by keyboard: login, start menu, settings, even ancient tools like Event Viewer.
  - no-name-here 5mo ago
    Except, strangely, for setup - if you don’t load your laptop’s touchpad/trackpad driver during the early select a partition screen, you seem to get stuck on later screens like when you are required to connect to WiFi.
baq 5mo ago
There is zero reason this capability couldn't have been preserved in the GUI version. It's a common UX design failure mode when people who don't use and never have used the system are told to design the next version of it, but GUI or TUI has little to do with it. GUI just relaxes constraints (which makes shooting UX in the foot easier!)
- graemep 5mo ago
  It is also almost always less used and less discoverable. To most people using the keyboard in a GUI does not come naturally. It is also an extra effort for developers.
- array_key_first 5mo ago
  Kind of, but one benefit of TUIs is text buffering. Part of the reason you were able to go lightning fast in those old TUIs is your inputs would be buffered and then replayed when the application become responsive. Inputs weren't dropped, so even if you were moving faster than the application could keep up (or the network) it would still function predictably. This was mostly lost in web applications and most desktop applications. Inputs are dropped and lost during processes, page refresh or navigation. It means that while these applications can sometimes be used with a keyboard, they can't be used reliably or predictably. The same inputs would have different effects based on the time of day or network load.

by keyle 5mo ago

orbital-decay 5mo ago

That's a problem with the specific GUI, not GUI as a concept. Good GUI frameworks should be built for predictability and keyboard-driven fast paths, and have this included by default so you don't have to make these decisions for each app. In fact, all successful applications for professionals/power users are built with fast paths in mind. Even Microsoft's ribbon which gets a lot of hate for some reason is an example of that, it's keyboard-driven, customizable, and discoverable at the same time.

chihuahua 5mo ago
In fact, just about everything in Windows (not apps, since those can be created by 3rd party developers who may or may not care, but the OS) can be operated by keyboard: login, start menu, settings, even ancient tools like Event Viewer.
- no-name-here 5mo ago
  Except, strangely, for setup - if you don’t load your laptop’s touchpad/trackpad driver during the early select a partition screen, you seem to get stuck on later screens like when you are required to connect to WiFi.

baq 5mo ago

There is zero reason this capability couldn't have been preserved in the GUI version. It's a common UX design failure mode when people who don't use and never have used the system are told to design the next version of it, but GUI or TUI has little to do with it. GUI just relaxes constraints (which makes shooting UX in the foot easier!)

graemep 5mo ago
It is also almost always less used and less discoverable. To most people using the keyboard in a GUI does not come naturally. It is also an extra effort for developers.
array_key_first 5mo ago
Kind of, but one benefit of TUIs is text buffering. Part of the reason you were able to go lightning fast in those old TUIs is your inputs would be buffered and then replayed when the application become responsive. Inputs weren't dropped, so even if you were moving faster than the application could keep up (or the network) it would still function predictably. This was mostly lost in web applications and most desktop applications. Inputs are dropped and lost during processes, page refresh or navigation. It means that while these applications can sometimes be used with a keyboard, they can't be used reliably or predictably. The same inputs would have different effects based on the time of day or network load.