4 ms·

Strong disagree. First, like many of the other comments mention, Banksy is known for being clever and witty, but not particularly subtle. But more to the point

Strong disagree. First, like many of the other comments mention, Banksy is known for being clever and witty, but not particularly subtle. But more to the point, while you may think the meaning is a bit obvious, the fact that the flag is unadorned (which/whose flag is it?), and the man is unknown, makes me think this statue could be the ultimate Rorschach test. I'm sure there are tons of people thinking "Ha ha, this is the perfect commentary on all those idiot <people on the other side who I disagree with> wrapping themselves up in their ideology of <patriotism/social justice/cause du jour> as they march <some particular country/society/the world at large off a cliff>". In other words, I'm guessing you probably felt the meaning was "obvious" because you filled in the blanks in the above madlibs-style statement in a way that feels obvious to you, and I think folks on "the other side" would probably fill in the blanks with the exact opposite notions in a way that feels "obvious" to them.

squigz 6mo ago
The ambiguity - that this could apply to anyone, that people are so caught up in their belief of choice - is part of the obviousness, at least to me. I would expect more people to be aware of this, than to actually believe that it's talking about, say, Americans in particular.
- usefulcat 6mo ago
  I do agree that it’s obvious in the way that you describe. But I still think it’s a point worth making—that it could apply to anyone. Because I don’t think that thought is likely to occur to a lot of people, regardless of their particular belief of choice. And that is a problem.
  - vkou 6mo ago
    > But I still think it’s a point worth making—that it could apply to anyone. ... anyone who engages in this behaviour, yes. Not anyone nor everyone does.
- anon373839 6mo ago
  One can’t say that proposition is obvious to the population at large. Else, “we” (as in Earth in 2026) would have very political dynamics. So maybe Banksy felt inclined to do a public service announcement.
- Pay08 6mo ago
  > I would expect more people to be aware of this You'd be very surprised.
- buddhistdude 6mo ago
  if it was so obvious to most of us, we wouldn't be having this problem.
throwaway894345 6mo ago
I'm guessing most would assume this is about nationalists, and I don't think even the nationalists would imagine Banksy is on their side?
- gkoberger 6mo ago
  I think you'd be surprised. People interpret art how they want. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_who_oppose_Donald_Trump%27s_use_of_their_music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_who_oppose_Donald_Tr...
- pstuart 6mo ago
  I'm tempted to agree, specifically because of the depicted flag waver. That person embodies the leadership of the status quo, and nationalism is a core component of that. Flags are literally a statement of identity, but I think that comes in two distinct flavors: 1. The national flag which is planted in a state of ownership and assimilation 2. A protest flag to state to others that they are not alone in their protest. I could be missing something but I think it is effectively this simple.
gerdesj 6mo ago
The flag is unadorned and I think you can extend your interpretation to include the proliferation of flags which have a minimal "history". Banksy is from Bris'l which is sort of north Somerset (Somerset keeps on morphing faster than a sci-fi shapeshifter). Cornwall has had a white cross on a black flag since 18something. Devon decided to adopt a black edged white cross on a green flag. I remember seeing Devon flag car stickers in the '80s - its a little older than that. Somerset now has ... a flag. Yellow and red I think. No idea why because people can't decide what it is! The land itself knows exactly what and where it is but the political boundaries ebb and flow with the phases of the moon. Is Avon included ... what is Avon? Ooh, BANES - Somerset? Not today thank you. It goes on. Anyway, do Devon and Somerset and co really need a flag? No of course not. What we really need is a Wessex flag, which will take over Mercia ... and a few other regional efforts ... and end up as a red cross on a white background. Then we could munge that with a couple of other flags and confuse the entire world with something called the Union Flag. Then we can really get complicated ... hi Hawaii!
- mootothemax 6mo ago
  > what is Avon? Welsh for river.
  - tomxor 6mo ago
    Hah TIL. So it's the river Welsh river on the English side of the Bristol channel. I often feel like I would understand a lot more names if I bothered learning Welsh. It's pretty popular for made up climbing route names too, because Wales is so good for it I guess. Allegedly some of the classics in the Avon gorge are Welsh derived but I could never figure them out to be sure.
    - ndsipa_pomu 6mo ago
      They're more likely Celtic words that live on in Welsh.
    - mootothemax 6mo ago
      It’s lovely isn’t it? There’re a good few of these things around: notably Torpenhow Hill (which killjoys dispute); and ones like Pendle Hill (which they don’t).
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
arduanika 6mo ago
> the fact that the flag is unadorned (which/whose flag is it?), and the man is unknown, makes me think this statue could be the ultimate Rorschach test This is part of what's obvious. The whole thing, including this oooh aahh Rorschach part, is obvious. It's thoughts that we all had in high school, and it is hack.
- leourbina 6mo ago
  And yet here here we all are taking about it. Art is about inciting a response, and he’s done it. Whether we think he’s a hack or not is irrelevant - he has the world’s attention.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Petersipoi 6mo ago
    Gp said, "it's a hack" You said, "Whether we think he's a hack", which fundamentally changes what is being discussed. The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Not because it is a clever or "deep" piece. It's disappointingly surface level, and the fact that we're talking about that doesn't suggest otherwise.
    - hn_throwaway_99 6mo ago
      > The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Baloney. It's a guerilla sculpture put up in the center of London. My guess is we might be talking about it more if it were unsigned as a case of whodunnit. But for me personally, I roll my eyes at all the ex-art students who always complain "it's a hack" for any piece of art that appeals to a wide audience and isn't some obnoxious 8-layers deep meaning. You literally see it all the time, and half the time it just strikes me as thinly-veiled jealousy, if not from the art student perspective than from the "I'm so much more sophisticated than the unwashed masses" perspective. It happened on HN a few months ago in a post about Simon Berger, an artist who makes portraits with cracked glass. The artist has achieved relatively wide appeal, and many of the comments here were along the lines of "Meh, he's a talentless hack, he just stumbled along a 'cool' technique but the subjects are boring." I'd have a lot more respect for folks that could just say "it's not my bag" and move on, rather than pretend they're so much more sophisticated than people who enjoy this art.
zarzavat 6mo ago
I'm pretty sure the piece is a commentary on the recent phenomenon of people of a right-wing political orientation hanging up the England flag everywhere, to the consternation of local governments who have to spend money taking them down. From a British perspective there's no ambiguity, flag shagging is a right-wing activity.
- rjinman 6mo ago
  Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.
  - danw1979 6mo ago
    He’s a British artist, the sculpture is in London and the phenomenon of raising of St George’s Cross on every lamppost on every roundabout is a recent initiative of the British right. Most people will be linking the statement of this sculpture to this activity. (I’m more likely to see the white rose of the House of York in “opposition” to the flag shaggers than a rainbow or anything else, in my neck of the woods, but there’s only a few of these flying) I do like the wider interpretation though, that any ideology can blind you.
    - 21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - matthewmacleod 6mo ago
        No, you were merely wrong.
    - tim333 6mo ago
      I live in central London where the the statue is and I think can confidently say there are more other flags than St George cross ones. Personally I kind of thought of Russia which is about the only lot marching off to war with Russian and Z flags all over. The St George lot mostly just moan about immigrants.
vintermann 6mo ago
There's nothing subtle about the things Banksy attacks either, in this case flag-shagging. Yes, he's about as subtle as a sledgehammer, but so what? We are definitively not living in an age of subtlety. Why should opposition be subtle when power isn't? If anything, I'm more surprised Banksy didn't depict literal flag-shagging.

squigz 6mo ago

The ambiguity - that this could apply to anyone, that people are so caught up in their belief of choice - is part of the obviousness, at least to me. I would expect more people to be aware of this, than to actually believe that it's talking about, say, Americans in particular.

usefulcat 6mo ago
I do agree that it’s obvious in the way that you describe. But I still think it’s a point worth making—that it could apply to anyone. Because I don’t think that thought is likely to occur to a lot of people, regardless of their particular belief of choice. And that is a problem.
- vkou 6mo ago
  > But I still think it’s a point worth making—that it could apply to anyone. ... anyone who engages in this behaviour, yes. Not anyone nor everyone does.
anon373839 6mo ago
One can’t say that proposition is obvious to the population at large. Else, “we” (as in Earth in 2026) would have very political dynamics. So maybe Banksy felt inclined to do a public service announcement.
Pay08 6mo ago
> I would expect more people to be aware of this You'd be very surprised.
buddhistdude 6mo ago
if it was so obvious to most of us, we wouldn't be having this problem.

throwaway894345 6mo ago

I'm guessing most would assume this is about nationalists, and I don't think even the nationalists would imagine Banksy is on their side?

gkoberger 6mo ago
I think you'd be surprised. People interpret art how they want. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_who_oppose_Donald_Trump%27s_use_of_their_music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musicians_who_oppose_Donald_Tr...
pstuart 6mo ago
I'm tempted to agree, specifically because of the depicted flag waver. That person embodies the leadership of the status quo, and nationalism is a core component of that. Flags are literally a statement of identity, but I think that comes in two distinct flavors: 1. The national flag which is planted in a state of ownership and assimilation 2. A protest flag to state to others that they are not alone in their protest. I could be missing something but I think it is effectively this simple.

gerdesj 6mo ago

The flag is unadorned and I think you can extend your interpretation to include the proliferation of flags which have a minimal "history". Banksy is from Bris'l which is sort of north Somerset (Somerset keeps on morphing faster than a sci-fi shapeshifter). Cornwall has had a white cross on a black flag since 18something. Devon decided to adopt a black edged white cross on a green flag. I remember seeing Devon flag car stickers in the '80s - its a little older than that. Somerset now has ... a flag. Yellow and red I think. No idea why because people can't decide what it is! The land itself knows exactly what and where it is but the political boundaries ebb and flow with the phases of the moon. Is Avon included ... what is Avon? Ooh, BANES - Somerset? Not today thank you. It goes on. Anyway, do Devon and Somerset and co really need a flag? No of course not. What we really need is a Wessex flag, which will take over Mercia ... and a few other regional efforts ... and end up as a red cross on a white background. Then we could munge that with a couple of other flags and confuse the entire world with something called the Union Flag. Then we can really get complicated ... hi Hawaii!

mootothemax 6mo ago
> what is Avon? Welsh for river.
- tomxor 6mo ago
  Hah TIL. So it's the river Welsh river on the English side of the Bristol channel. I often feel like I would understand a lot more names if I bothered learning Welsh. It's pretty popular for made up climbing route names too, because Wales is so good for it I guess. Allegedly some of the classics in the Avon gorge are Welsh derived but I could never figure them out to be sure.
  - ndsipa_pomu 6mo ago
    They're more likely Celtic words that live on in Welsh.
  - mootothemax 6mo ago
    It’s lovely isn’t it? There’re a good few of these things around: notably Torpenhow Hill (which killjoys dispute); and ones like Pendle Hill (which they don’t).

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

arduanika 6mo ago

> the fact that the flag is unadorned (which/whose flag is it?), and the man is unknown, makes me think this statue could be the ultimate Rorschach test This is part of what's obvious. The whole thing, including this oooh aahh Rorschach part, is obvious. It's thoughts that we all had in high school, and it is hack.

leourbina 6mo ago
And yet here here we all are taking about it. Art is about inciting a response, and he’s done it. Whether we think he’s a hack or not is irrelevant - he has the world’s attention.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- Petersipoi 6mo ago
  Gp said, "it's a hack" You said, "Whether we think he's a hack", which fundamentally changes what is being discussed. The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Not because it is a clever or "deep" piece. It's disappointingly surface level, and the fact that we're talking about that doesn't suggest otherwise.
  - hn_throwaway_99 6mo ago
    > The only reason we're talking about this is because of Banksy. Baloney. It's a guerilla sculpture put up in the center of London. My guess is we might be talking about it more if it were unsigned as a case of whodunnit. But for me personally, I roll my eyes at all the ex-art students who always complain "it's a hack" for any piece of art that appeals to a wide audience and isn't some obnoxious 8-layers deep meaning. You literally see it all the time, and half the time it just strikes me as thinly-veiled jealousy, if not from the art student perspective than from the "I'm so much more sophisticated than the unwashed masses" perspective. It happened on HN a few months ago in a post about Simon Berger, an artist who makes portraits with cracked glass. The artist has achieved relatively wide appeal, and many of the comments here were along the lines of "Meh, he's a talentless hack, he just stumbled along a 'cool' technique but the subjects are boring." I'd have a lot more respect for folks that could just say "it's not my bag" and move on, rather than pretend they're so much more sophisticated than people who enjoy this art.

zarzavat 6mo ago

I'm pretty sure the piece is a commentary on the recent phenomenon of people of a right-wing political orientation hanging up the England flag everywhere, to the consternation of local governments who have to spend money taking them down. From a British perspective there's no ambiguity, flag shagging is a right-wing activity.

rjinman 6mo ago
Is it? Most people I know who have flags proudly displayed are left wing and their flags are usually one of: the Palestinian flag, the ukrainian flag, the LGBT rainbow flag, or the trans flag.
- danw1979 6mo ago
  He’s a British artist, the sculpture is in London and the phenomenon of raising of St George’s Cross on every lamppost on every roundabout is a recent initiative of the British right. Most people will be linking the statement of this sculpture to this activity. (I’m more likely to see the white rose of the House of York in “opposition” to the flag shaggers than a rainbow or anything else, in my neck of the woods, but there’s only a few of these flying) I do like the wider interpretation though, that any ideology can blind you.
  - 21asdffdsa12 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - matthewmacleod 6mo ago
      No, you were merely wrong.
  - tim333 6mo ago
    I live in central London where the the statue is and I think can confidently say there are more other flags than St George cross ones. Personally I kind of thought of Russia which is about the only lot marching off to war with Russian and Z flags all over. The St George lot mostly just moan about immigrants.

vintermann 6mo ago

There's nothing subtle about the things Banksy attacks either, in this case flag-shagging. Yes, he's about as subtle as a sledgehammer, but so what? We are definitively not living in an age of subtlety. Why should opposition be subtle when power isn't? If anything, I'm more surprised Banksy didn't depict literal flag-shagging.