4 ms·

// We later learned that sadly only 6% of Southwest pilots are women, I am not sure that's a "sadly". I used to fly a lot and talk to flight crews. Aviation is

// We later learned that sadly only 6% of Southwest pilots are women, I am not sure that's a "sadly". I used to fly a lot and talk to flight crews. Aviation is a ton of crazy schedules and nights away from home (I assume this is well known) From a family perspective it's bad enough if dads missing from the house for days at a time, much more catastrophic if mom's not around like that. (A child's relationship with mom vs. dad is very different. Kids need their mom in a very different way that we can't just paper over)

ani_k47 6mo ago
forgive me if I am wrong, but this comment sounds like we are trying to build a narrative. I might be wrong. No offense.
- xyzelement 6mo ago
  Not sure the point. I was citing the article and sharing my reaction. What are you doing with the royal we?
  - inquirerGeneral 6mo ago
    [dead]
- neonstatic 6mo ago
  The "sadly" comment in the article is also a narrative. No offense.
  - LastTrain 6mo ago
    It isn't a narrative, it is simply a point of view. Are we happy there aren't more women pilots? That would be your POV.
    - neonstatic 6mo ago
      The narrative is "it is important that genders are equally represented in all professions". The "sadly" indicates that - it assumes that equality of representation is good and expected, so the fact that it was found to not be the case is "sad". > Are we happy there aren't more women pilots? I'm sorry, what? Who's we? You and... ? > That would be your POV If you want to know my POV all you have to do is ask.
    - bigstrat2003 6mo ago
      I don't care how many women pilots there are. Nor should anyone. What's important is that women have the opportunity to become pilots if they so choose, not how many women actually make that choice.
- khazhoux 6mo ago
  Is “build a narrative” code for something? The comment was pretty cut and dry as written.
  - ryandrake 6mo ago
    "Narrative" is the code word people use when they want to act coy and not say what they really think. Edgy vagueness.
HappyJoy 6mo ago
Fair - how does that account for the predominantly female FA population?
- xyzelement 6mo ago
  I don't think FA is a great job for a mom but it's not as horrible as pilot. FAs can switch shifts between themselves and dial up or down their hours with relative ease. Pilots have a lot less of this flexibility.
  - LastTrain 6mo ago
    The schedules have negligible difference with respect to your original argument. So if busy schedules are why there are hardly any women pilots, why is the gender balance the exact opposite for flight attendants? There are reasons, and they aren't all because "men bad", but your initial argument is 100% not true based on the simple counterexample of flight attendants. What is being "papered over" is this: why, given the same schedules, are women under-represented in the higher paying, higher prestige job?
    - thaumasiotes 6mo ago
      > why, given the same schedules, are women under-represented in the higher paying, higher prestige job? Why do you believe they have the same schedules? There's no rule that says when a pilot follows one flight with another flight, all the flight attendants have to join him. I don't think there's all that much inherent value in having several flights flown by the same pilot -- if anything, it's the reverse -- so I'd tend to suspect that the rarity of female pilots owes more to the fact that pilots come from the Air Force.
- throwaway041207 6mo ago
  FAs have very interesting schedules. As they work up seniority they have a ton of flexibility in how they space apart their required minimum number of shifts/overnights. Trading shifts and bidding for shifts is common. Additionally at some point in their seniority ladder they can start getting a regular set of shifts that get them back home to base daily, with occasional overnights. I suspect this institutional flexibility is actually a natural consequence of the gendered nature of the role.
arrrg 6mo ago
What evidence is this claim based on?
birdsongs 6mo ago
> From a family perspective it's bad enough if dads missing from the house for days at a time, much more catastrophic if mom's not around like that. Ah, what is so special that women bring that men can't? Neither women or men are fundamental to raising a child, parents are. Gay couples raise healthy, well-adjusted children all the time without one or the other gender as a parent. Positioning a family as having women-at-home as a requirement just sounds like old-school misogyny to me. (And also de-valuing the capability of men.) Men are perfectly capable of filling this domestic role as well.

ani_k47 6mo ago

forgive me if I am wrong, but this comment sounds like we are trying to build a narrative. I might be wrong. No offense.

xyzelement 6mo ago
Not sure the point. I was citing the article and sharing my reaction. What are you doing with the royal we?
- inquirerGeneral 6mo ago
  [dead]
neonstatic 6mo ago
The "sadly" comment in the article is also a narrative. No offense.
- LastTrain 6mo ago
  It isn't a narrative, it is simply a point of view. Are we happy there aren't more women pilots? That would be your POV.
  - neonstatic 6mo ago
    The narrative is "it is important that genders are equally represented in all professions". The "sadly" indicates that - it assumes that equality of representation is good and expected, so the fact that it was found to not be the case is "sad". > Are we happy there aren't more women pilots? I'm sorry, what? Who's we? You and... ? > That would be your POV If you want to know my POV all you have to do is ask.
  - bigstrat2003 6mo ago
    I don't care how many women pilots there are. Nor should anyone. What's important is that women have the opportunity to become pilots if they so choose, not how many women actually make that choice.
khazhoux 6mo ago
Is “build a narrative” code for something? The comment was pretty cut and dry as written.
- ryandrake 6mo ago
  "Narrative" is the code word people use when they want to act coy and not say what they really think. Edgy vagueness.

HappyJoy 6mo ago

Fair - how does that account for the predominantly female FA population?

xyzelement 6mo ago
I don't think FA is a great job for a mom but it's not as horrible as pilot. FAs can switch shifts between themselves and dial up or down their hours with relative ease. Pilots have a lot less of this flexibility.
- LastTrain 6mo ago
  The schedules have negligible difference with respect to your original argument. So if busy schedules are why there are hardly any women pilots, why is the gender balance the exact opposite for flight attendants? There are reasons, and they aren't all because "men bad", but your initial argument is 100% not true based on the simple counterexample of flight attendants. What is being "papered over" is this: why, given the same schedules, are women under-represented in the higher paying, higher prestige job?
  - thaumasiotes 6mo ago
    > why, given the same schedules, are women under-represented in the higher paying, higher prestige job? Why do you believe they have the same schedules? There's no rule that says when a pilot follows one flight with another flight, all the flight attendants have to join him. I don't think there's all that much inherent value in having several flights flown by the same pilot -- if anything, it's the reverse -- so I'd tend to suspect that the rarity of female pilots owes more to the fact that pilots come from the Air Force.
throwaway041207 6mo ago
FAs have very interesting schedules. As they work up seniority they have a ton of flexibility in how they space apart their required minimum number of shifts/overnights. Trading shifts and bidding for shifts is common. Additionally at some point in their seniority ladder they can start getting a regular set of shifts that get them back home to base daily, with occasional overnights. I suspect this institutional flexibility is actually a natural consequence of the gendered nature of the role.

arrrg 6mo ago

What evidence is this claim based on?

birdsongs 6mo ago

> From a family perspective it's bad enough if dads missing from the house for days at a time, much more catastrophic if mom's not around like that. Ah, what is so special that women bring that men can't? Neither women or men are fundamental to raising a child, parents are. Gay couples raise healthy, well-adjusted children all the time without one or the other gender as a parent. Positioning a family as having women-at-home as a requirement just sounds like old-school misogyny to me. (And also de-valuing the capability of men.) Men are perfectly capable of filling this domestic role as well.