5 ms·

Why nationalism? A flag can represent more than a nation. Can be blinded by any "flag" / ideology.

MattGaiser 5mo ago
Flags overwhelmingly represent nations, groups considering themselves nations, that were nations or have some kind of individual governmental status.
- lucketone 5mo ago
  Nations != governments. “Nations” as synonym for country started appearing only recently, in last two/three hundred years. Flags have thousands of years of history.
- kergonath 5mo ago
  Flags also represent causes, or groups that don’t aspire to becoming a nation.
- nephihaha 5mo ago
  They don't at all. Consider for example that every single city, county and local council in the UK has a flag. There are flags for the United Nations, the European Union, Esperanto, every major football team and most political movements including the CND and anarchism.
delusional 5mo ago
Interpretations, in my art? Seriously, this is part of the fun of art. Neither of you are wrong for reading different messages into it.
wrxd 5mo ago
Since last summer a lot of flags appeared all over the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours https://manchestermill.co.uk/the-men-who-raised-the-flags/ https://manchestermill.co.uk/the-men-who-raised-the-flags/
- philk10 5mo ago
  I went back to England last year and couldn't believe how many flags there were, I was shocked and not in a good way
  - nephihaha 5mo ago
    Every criticism levelled at the St. George's Cross can be levelled at the Union Jack. It is time people in England had a healthier relationship with their flag, more like Scotland and Wales, and less like Northern Ireland.
    - actionfromafar 5mo ago
      St. George's Cross is football brawls and "England uber alles". Union Jack is stiff upper lip and kicking nazis out of Europe.
      - nephihaha 5mo ago
        It was the flag of the British Empire with all that entails. It is to be found all over the loyalist areas of Northern Ireland and on Orange Marches. It has appeared in umpteen far right demos, and in fact if you look at 1970s far right footage you can see it is the flag they most commonly carry in the UK not the St. George's Cross. Oh, and you'll find it at plenty of football matches, notably Glasgow Rangers, who fly it while singing songs about wanting to be "up to our knees in Fenian blood".
      - deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
    - petesergeant 5mo ago
      Yes, that's true, if you completely ignore the reality of how they're used in practice today
      - nephihaha 5mo ago
adolph 5mo ago
The ambiguity is part of the charm. Something that reveals more about the beholders than the artist makes for stimulating conversation and discovery. Even the new positioning of the art on a plinth in some open space is enigmatic. If it were a critique of the powers that be, why would officialdom collaborate in propping it up?
- jerkstate 5mo ago
  why indeed
- appreciatorBus 5mo ago
  [flagged]
appreciatorBus 5mo ago
Exactly. Communists are blinded by the flag with the hammer and sickle. Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag. Examples abound, but wanna transgressor blanksy knows who butters his bread.
- pjc50 5mo ago
  > Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag You're going to get a bunch of downvotes, but I'm also going to take the time to personally tell you how stupid this is as well.
  - appreciatorBus 5mo ago
    I appreciate the extra time you invested to let me know. So to return the favor, I’ll add a couple of sentences too. A year ago I would never have made such a comment. My understanding about the issues boiled down to approximately: - queer theory is some sort of reasonably academic pursuit that has something to do with gay people - trans is just gay rights 2.0; clearly anyone who has any concerns is a raging bigot Neither was a core interest of mine, but they seemed reasonable enough. However, eventually, I started reading about the topic. (I’d recommend Trans by Helen Joyce) and now I feel differently. I now think JK had it right all along – we all should (and do) have the basic human right to wear whatever we like, and to sleep with anyone who will have us. But what’s being demanded by activists and taught in schools goes far beyond that and involves real contradictions, real risks to children and zero sum trade-offs with hard fought sex specific rights for women. These issues are things we could talk about so that we all come to a better understanding and make better decisions. But instead wide swathes of officialdom are “blinded by the flag” and have decided, as I once did, that anyone who has concerns is a raging bigot.
    - Ralfp 5mo ago
      Noting that you use exclusively gender critical sources (and some very poor ones to add, like Littman's "study") while also having history of blaming "wokism", I seriously doubt you have given this subject a fair consideration. Interesingly, so called "gender critical" movement is increasingly pivoting to other conservative or plainly reactionary talking points. For example, the book you are recommending makes a thinly veilded point that "promoters of trans ideology" are rich jewish men, key figure among them being George Soros. Kishwer Falkner who was big proponent of trans people segregation during her EHRC leadership recently turned to anti abortion activism. And plenty of LGB sans TQ people I've talked to are big fans of "we are normal gays who limit our orientation to the bedroom" talking points while also leaning conservative or reactionary themselves.
TehCorwiz 5mo ago
It's a monument style sculpture. The kind raised with public money. I think that carries part of the meaning with it versus graffiti or some other medium. It's also depicting the blinded walking off the edge, making the comment based on both the figure and the form of the statue.

Flags overwhelmingly represent nations, groups considering themselves nations, that were nations or have some kind of individual governmental status.

lucketone 5mo ago
Nations != governments. “Nations” as synonym for country started appearing only recently, in last two/three hundred years. Flags have thousands of years of history.
kergonath 5mo ago
Flags also represent causes, or groups that don’t aspire to becoming a nation.
nephihaha 5mo ago
They don't at all. Consider for example that every single city, county and local council in the UK has a flag. There are flags for the United Nations, the European Union, Esperanto, every major football team and most political movements including the CND and anarchism.

delusional 5mo ago

Interpretations, in my art? Seriously, this is part of the fun of art. Neither of you are wrong for reading different messages into it.

wrxd 5mo ago

Since last summer a lot of flags appeared all over the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raise_the_Colours https://manchestermill.co.uk/the-men-who-raised-the-flags/ https://manchestermill.co.uk/the-men-who-raised-the-flags/

philk10 5mo ago
I went back to England last year and couldn't believe how many flags there were, I was shocked and not in a good way
- nephihaha 5mo ago
  Every criticism levelled at the St. George's Cross can be levelled at the Union Jack. It is time people in England had a healthier relationship with their flag, more like Scotland and Wales, and less like Northern Ireland.
  - actionfromafar 5mo ago
    St. George's Cross is football brawls and "England uber alles". Union Jack is stiff upper lip and kicking nazis out of Europe.
    - nephihaha 5mo ago
      It was the flag of the British Empire with all that entails. It is to be found all over the loyalist areas of Northern Ireland and on Orange Marches. It has appeared in umpteen far right demos, and in fact if you look at 1970s far right footage you can see it is the flag they most commonly carry in the UK not the St. George's Cross. Oh, and you'll find it at plenty of football matches, notably Glasgow Rangers, who fly it while singing songs about wanting to be "up to our knees in Fenian blood".
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
  - petesergeant 5mo ago
    Yes, that's true, if you completely ignore the reality of how they're used in practice today
    - nephihaha 5mo ago

adolph 5mo ago

The ambiguity is part of the charm. Something that reveals more about the beholders than the artist makes for stimulating conversation and discovery. Even the new positioning of the art on a plinth in some open space is enigmatic. If it were a critique of the powers that be, why would officialdom collaborate in propping it up?

jerkstate 5mo ago
why indeed
appreciatorBus 5mo ago
[flagged]

appreciatorBus 5mo ago

Exactly. Communists are blinded by the flag with the hammer and sickle. Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag. Examples abound, but wanna transgressor blanksy knows who butters his bread.

pjc50 5mo ago
> Teachers and doctors are blinded by trans ideology and its flag You're going to get a bunch of downvotes, but I'm also going to take the time to personally tell you how stupid this is as well.
- appreciatorBus 5mo ago
  I appreciate the extra time you invested to let me know. So to return the favor, I’ll add a couple of sentences too. A year ago I would never have made such a comment. My understanding about the issues boiled down to approximately: - queer theory is some sort of reasonably academic pursuit that has something to do with gay people - trans is just gay rights 2.0; clearly anyone who has any concerns is a raging bigot Neither was a core interest of mine, but they seemed reasonable enough. However, eventually, I started reading about the topic. (I’d recommend Trans by Helen Joyce) and now I feel differently. I now think JK had it right all along – we all should (and do) have the basic human right to wear whatever we like, and to sleep with anyone who will have us. But what’s being demanded by activists and taught in schools goes far beyond that and involves real contradictions, real risks to children and zero sum trade-offs with hard fought sex specific rights for women. These issues are things we could talk about so that we all come to a better understanding and make better decisions. But instead wide swathes of officialdom are “blinded by the flag” and have decided, as I once did, that anyone who has concerns is a raging bigot.
  - Ralfp 5mo ago
    Noting that you use exclusively gender critical sources (and some very poor ones to add, like Littman's "study") while also having history of blaming "wokism", I seriously doubt you have given this subject a fair consideration. Interesingly, so called "gender critical" movement is increasingly pivoting to other conservative or plainly reactionary talking points. For example, the book you are recommending makes a thinly veilded point that "promoters of trans ideology" are rich jewish men, key figure among them being George Soros. Kishwer Falkner who was big proponent of trans people segregation during her EHRC leadership recently turned to anti abortion activism. And plenty of LGB sans TQ people I've talked to are big fans of "we are normal gays who limit our orientation to the bedroom" talking points while also leaning conservative or reactionary themselves.

TehCorwiz 5mo ago

It's a monument style sculpture. The kind raised with public money. I think that carries part of the meaning with it versus graffiti or some other medium. It's also depicting the blinded walking off the edge, making the comment based on both the figure and the form of the statue.