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I think that basic psychology has something to say about willpower as well. I'll gamble that it's easier for someone to avoid eating candy than for a nicotine

I think that basic psychology has something to say about willpower as well. I'll gamble that it's easier for someone to avoid eating candy than for a nicotine addict to avoid a cigarette that's 15 ft. away or an alcoholic to avoid a drink while in a bar -- yet people successfully quit nicotine and alcohol all the time, and without shutting themselves in a room for life. Those may be poor comparisons, but I know enough about psychology to know that people who want to change, do it on their own; jar of candy 15 ft. away be damned.

notdrunkatall 14y ago
As someone who smoked for 14 years, quit, and now has no problem being around smokers, I concur. People simply lack willpower and discipline.
- Gatsky 14y ago
  Good for you, but if we adopted this as an overriding principle in public health policy, then lots of people would just keep smoking. I would also add that education and socioeconomic status are clearly related to adverse health behaviours - are you saying that poor people who don't finish high school smoke more because they lack willpower and discipline? Simplicity is a wonderful thing...
- dalke 14y ago
  It's easy to put people on Mars. We simply lack a good propulsion system.
- baddox 14y ago
  You seem to be unaware of how some people's willpower works. If I want to quit smoking, I don't carry around a pack and a lighter and just "use willpower" to avoid smoking. If I want to break my alcoholism, I don't continue going to all the same bars and just order water.
SatvikBeri 14y ago
Willpower is a finite resource[1]. Passing by the candy jar 15 times can easily break your resistance or leave you a little dumber and more exhausted for the rest of the day because you've spent your willpower on resisting candy instead of more useful things. As for "people who want to change...", check out the Ornish program. Patients with severe heart disease who had bypass surgery literally faced a life-or-death mandate: quit smoking, exercise, eat healthier, or die. And yet the vast majority (90%) were unable to make any of those changes. Ornish's program, which basically provided a support group for those patients, raised success rates from about 10% to 77%[2]. Again, these people knew they had to change their habits or die, and that motivation was hardly ever effective, while having some external systems to support their habit changes was massively effective. [1]: http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagger_Ego_Depletion.pdf http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagg... [2]: http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die
- rizzom5000 14y ago
  Thanks for the links. The [2]: article is interesting in a number of ways that I'm hesitant to get into here. I'm aware of Ornish's research on lifestyle, and think that support groups are a great idea. But here's the rub: Say my employer gets rid of the candy and sponsers a support group at work for people who lack willpower. That's great! But what about the McDonald's and Burger King down the street? Should my employer lock the doors during work hours in order to control the willpower of its employees who might attempt to buy lunch at such places? What about at home? Should my employer attempt to control the shopping habits of its employees - and perhaps conduct impromptu spot checks of our homes to ensure that we aren't deviating from policy? The point is, at the end of the day, the group can only police so much. Again, support groups are great, but the choice to make a change is with the individual. The alternative is removing free will. That's all I'm saying with my OP.

notdrunkatall 14y ago

As someone who smoked for 14 years, quit, and now has no problem being around smokers, I concur. People simply lack willpower and discipline.

Gatsky 14y ago
Good for you, but if we adopted this as an overriding principle in public health policy, then lots of people would just keep smoking. I would also add that education and socioeconomic status are clearly related to adverse health behaviours - are you saying that poor people who don't finish high school smoke more because they lack willpower and discipline? Simplicity is a wonderful thing...
dalke 14y ago
It's easy to put people on Mars. We simply lack a good propulsion system.
baddox 14y ago
You seem to be unaware of how some people's willpower works. If I want to quit smoking, I don't carry around a pack and a lighter and just "use willpower" to avoid smoking. If I want to break my alcoholism, I don't continue going to all the same bars and just order water.

SatvikBeri 14y ago

Willpower is a finite resource[1]. Passing by the candy jar 15 times can easily break your resistance or leave you a little dumber and more exhausted for the rest of the day because you've spent your willpower on resisting candy instead of more useful things. As for "people who want to change...", check out the Ornish program. Patients with severe heart disease who had bypass surgery literally faced a life-or-death mandate: quit smoking, exercise, eat healthier, or die. And yet the vast majority (90%) were unable to make any of those changes. Ornish's program, which basically provided a support group for those patients, raised success rates from about 10% to 77%[2]. Again, these people knew they had to change their habits or die, and that motivation was hardly ever effective, while having some external systems to support their habit changes was massively effective. [1]: http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagger_Ego_Depletion.pdf http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagg... [2]: http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die

rizzom5000 14y ago
Thanks for the links. The [2]: article is interesting in a number of ways that I'm hesitant to get into here. I'm aware of Ornish's research on lifestyle, and think that support groups are a great idea. But here's the rub: Say my employer gets rid of the candy and sponsers a support group at work for people who lack willpower. That's great! But what about the McDonald's and Burger King down the street? Should my employer lock the doors during work hours in order to control the willpower of its employees who might attempt to buy lunch at such places? What about at home? Should my employer attempt to control the shopping habits of its employees - and perhaps conduct impromptu spot checks of our homes to ensure that we aren't deviating from policy? The point is, at the end of the day, the group can only police so much. Again, support groups are great, but the choice to make a change is with the individual. The alternative is removing free will. That's all I'm saying with my OP.