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I really don't get it. The snacks are there if you want them. Nobody is forcing you to partake. If you run 5 miles every morning, a 160 cal. bag of chips isn't

I really don't get it. The snacks are there if you want them. Nobody is forcing you to partake. If you run 5 miles every morning, a 160 cal. bag of chips isn't 'bad' for you. If you are a full-blown couch potato who avoids any type of physical exertion like the plague, then yes, by all means, skip the bag of chips. It's just so simple. So simple ...

dietrichepp 14y ago
Basic psychology. It's easier to avoid eating candy if you don't have a desk that's literally fifteen feet from an open jar that nobody is watching. If it were that simple, we would all be much healthier than we are.
- rizzom5000 14y ago
  I think that basic psychology has something to say about willpower as well. I'll gamble that it's easier for someone to avoid eating candy than for a nicotine addict to avoid a cigarette that's 15 ft. away or an alcoholic to avoid a drink while in a bar -- yet people successfully quit nicotine and alcohol all the time, and without shutting themselves in a room for life. Those may be poor comparisons, but I know enough about psychology to know that people who want to change, do it on their own; jar of candy 15 ft. away be damned.
  - notdrunkatall 14y ago
    As someone who smoked for 14 years, quit, and now has no problem being around smokers, I concur. People simply lack willpower and discipline.
    - Gatsky 14y ago
      Good for you, but if we adopted this as an overriding principle in public health policy, then lots of people would just keep smoking. I would also add that education and socioeconomic status are clearly related to adverse health behaviours - are you saying that poor people who don't finish high school smoke more because they lack willpower and discipline? Simplicity is a wonderful thing...
    - dalke 14y ago
      It's easy to put people on Mars. We simply lack a good propulsion system.
    - baddox 14y ago
      You seem to be unaware of how some people's willpower works. If I want to quit smoking, I don't carry around a pack and a lighter and just "use willpower" to avoid smoking. If I want to break my alcoholism, I don't continue going to all the same bars and just order water.
  - SatvikBeri 14y ago
    Willpower is a finite resource[1]. Passing by the candy jar 15 times can easily break your resistance or leave you a little dumber and more exhausted for the rest of the day because you've spent your willpower on resisting candy instead of more useful things. As for "people who want to change...", check out the Ornish program. Patients with severe heart disease who had bypass surgery literally faced a life-or-death mandate: quit smoking, exercise, eat healthier, or die. And yet the vast majority (90%) were unable to make any of those changes. Ornish's program, which basically provided a support group for those patients, raised success rates from about 10% to 77%[2]. Again, these people knew they had to change their habits or die, and that motivation was hardly ever effective, while having some external systems to support their habit changes was massively effective. [1]: http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagger_Ego_Depletion.pdf http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagg... [2]: http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die
    - rizzom5000 14y ago
      Thanks for the links. The [2]: article is interesting in a number of ways that I'm hesitant to get into here. I'm aware of Ornish's research on lifestyle, and think that support groups are a great idea. But here's the rub: Say my employer gets rid of the candy and sponsers a support group at work for people who lack willpower. That's great! But what about the McDonald's and Burger King down the street? Should my employer lock the doors during work hours in order to control the willpower of its employees who might attempt to buy lunch at such places? What about at home? Should my employer attempt to control the shopping habits of its employees - and perhaps conduct impromptu spot checks of our homes to ensure that we aren't deviating from policy? The point is, at the end of the day, the group can only police so much. Again, support groups are great, but the choice to make a change is with the individual. The alternative is removing free will. That's all I'm saying with my OP.
Gatsky 14y ago
There could be other things in the chips that make them unhealthy, such as food additives or advanced glycation end products (see here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20497781 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20497781). Running doesn't make you a super-detoxifying omnivore.
noarchy 14y ago
It is quite true that no one is forcing anyone to partake in this bad food. There is a choice. But the author praises the policies of a mayor (Bloomberg) who wishes to use force to remove choice.
SatvikBeri 14y ago
Have ever procrastinated? Lost your temper? Failed to exercise? There is a major gap between what people consciously believe makes sense and what they actually do. Rather than deny that, it's often more effective to accept that this gap exists and create systems to work around it.
baddox 14y ago
It's not wise for alcoholics to hang out in bars. It's not wise for someone struggling with marital fidelity to hang around strip clubs or brothels. It's not wise for people who know they have a tendency toward bad eating habits to surround themselves with free junk food.

dietrichepp 14y ago

Basic psychology. It's easier to avoid eating candy if you don't have a desk that's literally fifteen feet from an open jar that nobody is watching. If it were that simple, we would all be much healthier than we are.

rizzom5000 14y ago
I think that basic psychology has something to say about willpower as well. I'll gamble that it's easier for someone to avoid eating candy than for a nicotine addict to avoid a cigarette that's 15 ft. away or an alcoholic to avoid a drink while in a bar -- yet people successfully quit nicotine and alcohol all the time, and without shutting themselves in a room for life. Those may be poor comparisons, but I know enough about psychology to know that people who want to change, do it on their own; jar of candy 15 ft. away be damned.
- notdrunkatall 14y ago
  As someone who smoked for 14 years, quit, and now has no problem being around smokers, I concur. People simply lack willpower and discipline.
  - Gatsky 14y ago
    Good for you, but if we adopted this as an overriding principle in public health policy, then lots of people would just keep smoking. I would also add that education and socioeconomic status are clearly related to adverse health behaviours - are you saying that poor people who don't finish high school smoke more because they lack willpower and discipline? Simplicity is a wonderful thing...
  - dalke 14y ago
    It's easy to put people on Mars. We simply lack a good propulsion system.
  - baddox 14y ago
    You seem to be unaware of how some people's willpower works. If I want to quit smoking, I don't carry around a pack and a lighter and just "use willpower" to avoid smoking. If I want to break my alcoholism, I don't continue going to all the same bars and just order water.
- SatvikBeri 14y ago
  Willpower is a finite resource[1]. Passing by the candy jar 15 times can easily break your resistance or leave you a little dumber and more exhausted for the rest of the day because you've spent your willpower on resisting candy instead of more useful things. As for "people who want to change...", check out the Ornish program. Patients with severe heart disease who had bypass surgery literally faced a life-or-death mandate: quit smoking, exercise, eat healthier, or die. And yet the vast majority (90%) were unable to make any of those changes. Ornish's program, which basically provided a support group for those patients, raised success rates from about 10% to 77%[2]. Again, these people knew they had to change their habits or die, and that motivation was hardly ever effective, while having some external systems to support their habit changes was massively effective. [1]: http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagger_Ego_Depletion.pdf http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/msh/pdfs/MSHagg... [2]: http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die http://www.fastcompany.com/52717/change-or-die
  - rizzom5000 14y ago
    Thanks for the links. The [2]: article is interesting in a number of ways that I'm hesitant to get into here. I'm aware of Ornish's research on lifestyle, and think that support groups are a great idea. But here's the rub: Say my employer gets rid of the candy and sponsers a support group at work for people who lack willpower. That's great! But what about the McDonald's and Burger King down the street? Should my employer lock the doors during work hours in order to control the willpower of its employees who might attempt to buy lunch at such places? What about at home? Should my employer attempt to control the shopping habits of its employees - and perhaps conduct impromptu spot checks of our homes to ensure that we aren't deviating from policy? The point is, at the end of the day, the group can only police so much. Again, support groups are great, but the choice to make a change is with the individual. The alternative is removing free will. That's all I'm saying with my OP.

Gatsky 14y ago

There could be other things in the chips that make them unhealthy, such as food additives or advanced glycation end products (see here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20497781 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20497781). Running doesn't make you a super-detoxifying omnivore.

noarchy 14y ago

It is quite true that no one is forcing anyone to partake in this bad food. There is a choice. But the author praises the policies of a mayor (Bloomberg) who wishes to use force to remove choice.

SatvikBeri 14y ago

Have ever procrastinated? Lost your temper? Failed to exercise? There is a major gap between what people consciously believe makes sense and what they actually do. Rather than deny that, it's often more effective to accept that this gap exists and create systems to work around it.

baddox 14y ago

It's not wise for alcoholics to hang out in bars. It's not wise for someone struggling with marital fidelity to hang around strip clubs or brothels. It's not wise for people who know they have a tendency toward bad eating habits to surround themselves with free junk food.