4 ms·

It is very funny that Nord Stream had to be sabotaged while all the Nord Stream money was wasted (Russia had a weak army while the pipeline was operational). N

by cabnm 5mo ago

It is very funny that Nord Stream had to be sabotaged while all the Nord Stream money was wasted (Russia had a weak army while the pipeline was operational). Now we are supposed to buy solar panels from China while the US is depicting China as the greatest threat, senate hearings demand usage of US bases in Asia without the approval of the host countries and the US started the Iran war to maintain a blockade to control both the EU and China. I wonder if Bilderberg group member Radoslav Sikorski will be gloating on Twitter when secondary sanctions will be imposed on the EU if they import Chinese solar panels.

Throaway199999 5mo ago
Hm...I don't think the blockade is long-term feasible, so Im not sure I buy the logic there.
dgellow 5mo ago
> the US started the Iran war to maintain a blockade to control both the EU and China Where are you getting this from? That’s not even remotely close to my understanding of the situation
- cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
  It's clear the net effect is a subsidy to the North American hydrocarbon sector at the expense of Europe and China and India. Oil prices were falling, now they're not. Places like Alberta were going to run a deficit because oil prices were low. Now they're not. People were buying from the middle east. Now they're less-so. Stated goals and whether this was accidental is a whole other question. I'm not sure why people as a whole don't seem to have absorbed the fact that North America is an energy exporting economy now, not a net importer. The question is whether North American consumers really like that they're paying so much more at the pump (and, shortly, for food prices) on account of oil executives making off like bandits.
  - dgellow 5mo ago
    Ok, if we mean the effect I agree. But the parent was talking about intent, or at least that’s how I read it
    - cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
      What do we actually know about the intent of any of these lunatics? At that level of decision making and power this is not something that is ever going to be clear. You can only go based on material effect.
      - delecti 5mo ago
        Going to war with Iran has been the unambiguous goal of Israel for decades. In absence of strong evidence to the contrary, the default assumption should be that that was the motivation.
        cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
        Both things can be true -- but why is it so hard to absorb that when you have heavy stock market investors and people connected to the energy sector literally running the largest military on earth that they'd be working on behalf of their own financial interests and those of their patrons, rather than on some vague ideological or religious motivations? We are not dealing with detached neo-liberal political bureaucrats from 20 years ago. The American people explicitly elected the foxes to run the hen house. This is the result. Also, I am an opponent of the Israeli state and its domestic and foreign policy. But seeing its wishes as some sort of puppet master over the United States verges into anti-Semitic conspiracy theory territory. I prefer material, economic explanations. It's just as likely that elites in Israel have the same economic interests as well.
        dgellow 5mo ago
        I don’t think the claim is puppet mastering, more the fact that Trump is very easy to manipulate by inflating his ego, something Netanyahu has been doing publicly since a while. Though the reporting is pretty confusing, it’s not clear if Trump is the one who convinced Netanyahu to go in or the other way. The various leaked meetings are all from anonymous sources. The result is the same though, at least for now. Might as well focus on the economic aspects you mentioned. In any case the global economy is fucked for a while
- rasHjl 5mo ago
  You won't find it in the mainstream press. This administration is about "pivoting to China" (i.e., controlling China more). Elbridge Colby, who is a main China hawk, is undersecretary of defense now. Here is a write-up on the China part: https://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/iran-strike-all-about-china-zineb-riboua https://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/iran-strike... For broader geopolitical chess games the "Path to Persia" and "Extending Russia" papers are all time favorites. The EU part isn't that explicit. It is a mixture of the US wanting to take the Greenland Arctic Sea route, sabotaging energy deliveries from Russia and making the EU dependent on US LNG. Now the EU is even more dependent on the US and there is no sign that the US wants Hormuz open. It is stalling, in my opinion deliberately.
  - amanaplanacanal 5mo ago
    I think it's stalling because there is no support for the war in the US, and the political cost of actually opening the straight is higher than they are willing to pay. Notice the US is now declaring that the war is over, so they don't have to go justify it in Congress.
    - cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
      Unlikely to be even the bulk of the explanation. There has been zero cost to them (both administration and congress) in pursuing what they're pursuing and keeping the conflict hot, so no reason to stop. And congress is in on the act, they don't give a crap. Were you under the illusion your house of representatives was representing you? Oil per-barrel price is up so American energy exporter profits are up. At the same time, total quantity of exported barrels from the US and Canada are up as well because they have become the most "stable" supplier. Stock market is also up, or at least flat, but "predictably" up where it needed be to keep the right people happy. Insider trading and a cycle of "taco-tuesdays" has allowed key parties to make absolutely insane amounts of money at the same time. Trump is boldly incompetent and bumbling as a person. But the people telling him what to do are not. He's there to make them rich and he's doing a fabulous job of it.
      - 5mo ago

by cabnm 5mo ago

Throaway199999 5mo ago

Hm...I don't think the blockade is long-term feasible, so Im not sure I buy the logic there.

dgellow 5mo ago

> the US started the Iran war to maintain a blockade to control both the EU and China Where are you getting this from? That’s not even remotely close to my understanding of the situation

cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
It's clear the net effect is a subsidy to the North American hydrocarbon sector at the expense of Europe and China and India. Oil prices were falling, now they're not. Places like Alberta were going to run a deficit because oil prices were low. Now they're not. People were buying from the middle east. Now they're less-so. Stated goals and whether this was accidental is a whole other question. I'm not sure why people as a whole don't seem to have absorbed the fact that North America is an energy exporting economy now, not a net importer. The question is whether North American consumers really like that they're paying so much more at the pump (and, shortly, for food prices) on account of oil executives making off like bandits.
- dgellow 5mo ago
  Ok, if we mean the effect I agree. But the parent was talking about intent, or at least that’s how I read it
  - cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
    What do we actually know about the intent of any of these lunatics? At that level of decision making and power this is not something that is ever going to be clear. You can only go based on material effect.
    - delecti 5mo ago
      Going to war with Iran has been the unambiguous goal of Israel for decades. In absence of strong evidence to the contrary, the default assumption should be that that was the motivation.
      - cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
        Both things can be true -- but why is it so hard to absorb that when you have heavy stock market investors and people connected to the energy sector literally running the largest military on earth that they'd be working on behalf of their own financial interests and those of their patrons, rather than on some vague ideological or religious motivations? We are not dealing with detached neo-liberal political bureaucrats from 20 years ago. The American people explicitly elected the foxes to run the hen house. This is the result. Also, I am an opponent of the Israeli state and its domestic and foreign policy. But seeing its wishes as some sort of puppet master over the United States verges into anti-Semitic conspiracy theory territory. I prefer material, economic explanations. It's just as likely that elites in Israel have the same economic interests as well.
        dgellow 5mo ago
        I don’t think the claim is puppet mastering, more the fact that Trump is very easy to manipulate by inflating his ego, something Netanyahu has been doing publicly since a while. Though the reporting is pretty confusing, it’s not clear if Trump is the one who convinced Netanyahu to go in or the other way. The various leaked meetings are all from anonymous sources. The result is the same though, at least for now. Might as well focus on the economic aspects you mentioned. In any case the global economy is fucked for a while
rasHjl 5mo ago
You won't find it in the mainstream press. This administration is about "pivoting to China" (i.e., controlling China more). Elbridge Colby, who is a main China hawk, is undersecretary of defense now. Here is a write-up on the China part: https://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/iran-strike-all-about-china-zineb-riboua https://www.hudson.org/national-security-defense/iran-strike... For broader geopolitical chess games the "Path to Persia" and "Extending Russia" papers are all time favorites. The EU part isn't that explicit. It is a mixture of the US wanting to take the Greenland Arctic Sea route, sabotaging energy deliveries from Russia and making the EU dependent on US LNG. Now the EU is even more dependent on the US and there is no sign that the US wants Hormuz open. It is stalling, in my opinion deliberately.
- amanaplanacanal 5mo ago
  I think it's stalling because there is no support for the war in the US, and the political cost of actually opening the straight is higher than they are willing to pay. Notice the US is now declaring that the war is over, so they don't have to go justify it in Congress.
  - cmrdporcupine 5mo ago
    Unlikely to be even the bulk of the explanation. There has been zero cost to them (both administration and congress) in pursuing what they're pursuing and keeping the conflict hot, so no reason to stop. And congress is in on the act, they don't give a crap. Were you under the illusion your house of representatives was representing you? Oil per-barrel price is up so American energy exporter profits are up. At the same time, total quantity of exported barrels from the US and Canada are up as well because they have become the most "stable" supplier. Stock market is also up, or at least flat, but "predictably" up where it needed be to keep the right people happy. Insider trading and a cycle of "taco-tuesdays" has allowed key parties to make absolutely insane amounts of money at the same time. Trump is boldly incompetent and bumbling as a person. But the people telling him what to do are not. He's there to make them rich and he's doing a fabulous job of it.
    - 5mo ago