4 ms·

I'm still confused as to why folks don't just write executable specs.

by wesselbindt 5mo ago

cenamus 5mo ago
So basically tests?
- MoreQARespect 5mo ago
  Yes, except a test can be turing complete - i.e. code. An executable spec like gherkin or hitchstory is config - it has no loops or conditionals. There are a number of rarely recognized benefits to this.
carlbarrdahl 5mo ago
Could you expand on this?
- booi 5mo ago
  code
  - arikrahman 5mo ago
    Literate programming would provide specs and code instead of working backwards from hard coded functions to figure out specs.
    - cassianoleal 5mo ago
      > working backwards from hard coded functions to figure out specs. People do that? Actual professionals?
      - arikrahman 5mo ago
        Yes all the time actually, especially when making system migrations. Uncle Bob writes about this in Clean Code. It is actually extremely common since it's the most apparent course of action to look at hard-coded values in maintenance and backport it as specs to new system.
fudgeonastick 5mo ago
If you're confused, and have tried Opus for coding, I'm keen to hear what problems or workflows it's not good at. If you're genuinely confused, and haven't tried Opus for coding, then it's not surprising you're confused! It is also okay for you to just not like the idea of LLMs for coding (but say that!).
- oytis 5mo ago
  That's what the article is about - overcoming problems with AI cooding tools using specs in Yaml. If we've got that far, it might be better to write specs in a proper programming language instead and skip the AI layer altogether
  - adi_kurian 5mo ago
    Think the idea is to still get monumental acceleration between fancy YAML specs (bullet points with some indentation that an intelligent technical manager could write) and production ready code.
    - oytis 5mo ago
      I have yet to see the monumental acceleration tbh. For people who never tried writing code themselves a semi-formal spec is definitely a step in the right direction though
- wiseowise 5mo ago
  I’m using Opus 4.6 and I’m so confused! Maybe I should try Opus 4.7, which is almost twice as expensive to get some clarity (but not too much, I need to save money for Opus 4.8)?
eterm 5mo ago
Ambiguity is the grease that keeps everything turning.
mike_hearn 5mo ago
Some of us do! That's called Gherkin.

I'm still confused as to why folks don't just write executable specs.

cenamus 5mo ago

So basically tests?

MoreQARespect 5mo ago
Yes, except a test can be turing complete - i.e. code. An executable spec like gherkin or hitchstory is config - it has no loops or conditionals. There are a number of rarely recognized benefits to this.

carlbarrdahl 5mo ago

Could you expand on this?

booi 5mo ago
code
- arikrahman 5mo ago
  Literate programming would provide specs and code instead of working backwards from hard coded functions to figure out specs.
  - cassianoleal 5mo ago
    > working backwards from hard coded functions to figure out specs. People do that? Actual professionals?
    - arikrahman 5mo ago
      Yes all the time actually, especially when making system migrations. Uncle Bob writes about this in Clean Code. It is actually extremely common since it's the most apparent course of action to look at hard-coded values in maintenance and backport it as specs to new system.

fudgeonastick 5mo ago

If you're confused, and have tried Opus for coding, I'm keen to hear what problems or workflows it's not good at. If you're genuinely confused, and haven't tried Opus for coding, then it's not surprising you're confused! It is also okay for you to just not like the idea of LLMs for coding (but say that!).

oytis 5mo ago
That's what the article is about - overcoming problems with AI cooding tools using specs in Yaml. If we've got that far, it might be better to write specs in a proper programming language instead and skip the AI layer altogether
- adi_kurian 5mo ago
  Think the idea is to still get monumental acceleration between fancy YAML specs (bullet points with some indentation that an intelligent technical manager could write) and production ready code.
  - oytis 5mo ago
    I have yet to see the monumental acceleration tbh. For people who never tried writing code themselves a semi-formal spec is definitely a step in the right direction though
wiseowise 5mo ago
I’m using Opus 4.6 and I’m so confused! Maybe I should try Opus 4.7, which is almost twice as expensive to get some clarity (but not too much, I need to save money for Opus 4.8)?

eterm 5mo ago

Ambiguity is the grease that keeps everything turning.

mike_hearn 5mo ago

Some of us do! That's called Gherkin.