3 ms·

It's interesting that we're so used to be tracked at this point that no one balks at being opted-in by default. A flag called DO_NOT_TRACK sounds like a good id

It's interesting that we're so used to be tracked at this point that no one balks at being opted-in by default. A flag called DO_NOT_TRACK sounds like a good idea, but also suggests the default is CONSENT_TO_TRACK=1, and I find that creepy.

thephyber 5mo ago
Do not track WHEN? This flag is sent by my browser when I connect to SOMEONE ELSE’s SERVER. The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads and derivative information that servers do to their users. It’s not fun. It’s not private or secure. It’s not illegal (in most jurisdictions for most industries). The flag exists as a response to the de facto and de jure state of the world, not some fairytale scenario.
- charles_f 5mo ago
  Article quite literally talks about tracking of cli tools you run on your own computer, half of which are to pilot products that you pay with your own money. Get off your high horse.
  - doginasuit 5mo ago
    I would advocate for not getting your horse high to begin with, or hide your stash better.
    - dylan604 5mo ago
      Wow, I guess I grew up too close to actual cowboys that this is an interpretation I just never considered. Not sure why though as it's right there for the taking.
- RugnirViking 5mo ago
  > The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads No? It took off before advertising was widespread as a primary or sole funding business model? Also there's literally nothing about advertising that requires data collection about users. Sure they love to do it, and they might even believe that it helps their profits in some way. But it's not inherent, they got along just fine with billboards and newspaper classifieds. TV ads never required personal information. Not did pre roll cinema ads, or radio adverts. Nobody was bemoaning in the streets that they couldn't possibly find anything to buy
- righthand 5mo ago
  You’re confusing the Internet with Google.
- y42 5mo ago
  > The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads and derivative information that servers do to their users. quite the opposite I would argue: https://nickyreinert.de/2020/2020-10-24-marketing-killed-the-internet-star/ https://nickyreinert.de/2020/2020-10-24-marketing-killed-the...
- thayne 5mo ago
  You can have ads without tracking.
- Griffinsauce 5mo ago
  > The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads and derivative information that servers do to their users. Arguable, on the other hand it did kill the internet. (or, almost so far, we'll see whether we rebound after decades of enshittification)
- tdeck 5mo ago
  The article is about local desktop / CLI tools that collect telemetry, not the web browser "do not track" standard.
- lee_ars 5mo ago
  > This flag is sent by my browser when I connect to SOMEONE ELSE’s SERVER. ...and promptly, thoroughly ignored.
- mkl 5mo ago
  > This flag is sent by my browser when I connect to SOMEONE ELSE’s SERVER. No, it's set in your command shell (e.g. bash) and tells CLI programs that support it to not connect to a server. It has nothing to do with browsers or ads. This is all very clear in the article.
- croes 5mo ago
  You can serve ads without tracking
shevy-java 5mo ago
I actually consider such a flag to be problematic. I don't want to give out any information - of course I never want to be tracked, but marking this via an ENV variable alone, already makes zero sense to me. I don't understand people who like that while claiming they do not want to be tracked; if they give that information, then this means they are marked.
d2p 5mo ago
> A flag called DO_NOT_TRACK sounds like a good idea, but also suggests the default is CONSENT_TO_TRACK=1, and I find that creepy. It could also be used to prevent showing an opt-in notification at all even in software that requires opt-in.
- rapidaneurism 5mo ago
  It is a bit sad that in privacy enthusiastic consent is understood as failing to shout 'NO' in the right way.
croes 5mo ago
Nitpicking: There is no being opted-in by default, that‘s opt-out
- marshray 5mo ago
  Hmm. I read a semantic difference between "opt-out" and "being opted-in by default". The first denotes an abstract policy, the second an action that has been done to you in which you were a passive participant. And this is all about our lack of agency. You may prefer that we speak of abstract policies. But to say "there is no" about an otherwise sensible phrase implies that you think that we have agreed to stay within some fixed set of terminology. I didn't think that we had.
  - croes 5mo ago
    If you hadn’t the option to go in it is not opt-in. If so put you in by default but you have the option to go out it’s opt-put So this is either opt-out or not a option at all
    - marshray 5mo ago
      The law of the excluded middle does not create semantic problems for the phrase "being opted-in by default". Human language does not work like that.
      - croes 5mo ago
        There is no excluded middle. You have to turn it on = Opt-In You have to turn it off = Opt-Out Just because the option was added later on doesn’t change that. Or tell me what’s the difference for me between Opted-In by default and Opt-Out
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

thephyber 5mo ago

Do not track WHEN? This flag is sent by my browser when I connect to SOMEONE ELSE’s SERVER. The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads and derivative information that servers do to their users. It’s not fun. It’s not private or secure. It’s not illegal (in most jurisdictions for most industries). The flag exists as a response to the de facto and de jure state of the world, not some fairytale scenario.

charles_f 5mo ago
Article quite literally talks about tracking of cli tools you run on your own computer, half of which are to pilot products that you pay with your own money. Get off your high horse.
- doginasuit 5mo ago
  I would advocate for not getting your horse high to begin with, or hide your stash better.
  - dylan604 5mo ago
    Wow, I guess I grew up too close to actual cowboys that this is an interpretation I just never considered. Not sure why though as it's right there for the taking.
RugnirViking 5mo ago
> The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads No? It took off before advertising was widespread as a primary or sole funding business model? Also there's literally nothing about advertising that requires data collection about users. Sure they love to do it, and they might even believe that it helps their profits in some way. But it's not inherent, they got along just fine with billboards and newspaper classifieds. TV ads never required personal information. Not did pre roll cinema ads, or radio adverts. Nobody was bemoaning in the streets that they couldn't possibly find anything to buy
righthand 5mo ago
You’re confusing the Internet with Google.
y42 5mo ago
> The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads and derivative information that servers do to their users. quite the opposite I would argue: https://nickyreinert.de/2020/2020-10-24-marketing-killed-the-internet-star/ https://nickyreinert.de/2020/2020-10-24-marketing-killed-the...
thayne 5mo ago
You can have ads without tracking.
Griffinsauce 5mo ago
> The internet only took off because the primary business model which ran on ads and derivative information that servers do to their users. Arguable, on the other hand it did kill the internet. (or, almost so far, we'll see whether we rebound after decades of enshittification)
tdeck 5mo ago
The article is about local desktop / CLI tools that collect telemetry, not the web browser "do not track" standard.
lee_ars 5mo ago
> This flag is sent by my browser when I connect to SOMEONE ELSE’s SERVER. ...and promptly, thoroughly ignored.
mkl 5mo ago
> This flag is sent by my browser when I connect to SOMEONE ELSE’s SERVER. No, it's set in your command shell (e.g. bash) and tells CLI programs that support it to not connect to a server. It has nothing to do with browsers or ads. This is all very clear in the article.
croes 5mo ago
You can serve ads without tracking

shevy-java 5mo ago

I actually consider such a flag to be problematic. I don't want to give out any information - of course I never want to be tracked, but marking this via an ENV variable alone, already makes zero sense to me. I don't understand people who like that while claiming they do not want to be tracked; if they give that information, then this means they are marked.

d2p 5mo ago

> A flag called DO_NOT_TRACK sounds like a good idea, but also suggests the default is CONSENT_TO_TRACK=1, and I find that creepy. It could also be used to prevent showing an opt-in notification at all even in software that requires opt-in.

rapidaneurism 5mo ago
It is a bit sad that in privacy enthusiastic consent is understood as failing to shout 'NO' in the right way.

croes 5mo ago

Nitpicking: There is no being opted-in by default, that‘s opt-out

marshray 5mo ago
Hmm. I read a semantic difference between "opt-out" and "being opted-in by default". The first denotes an abstract policy, the second an action that has been done to you in which you were a passive participant. And this is all about our lack of agency. You may prefer that we speak of abstract policies. But to say "there is no" about an otherwise sensible phrase implies that you think that we have agreed to stay within some fixed set of terminology. I didn't think that we had.
- croes 5mo ago
  If you hadn’t the option to go in it is not opt-in. If so put you in by default but you have the option to go out it’s opt-put So this is either opt-out or not a option at all
  - marshray 5mo ago
    The law of the excluded middle does not create semantic problems for the phrase "being opted-in by default". Human language does not work like that.
    - croes 5mo ago
      There is no excluded middle. You have to turn it on = Opt-In You have to turn it off = Opt-Out Just because the option was added later on doesn’t change that. Or tell me what’s the difference for me between Opted-In by default and Opt-Out

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]