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> it's not like there isn't room to improve Losing one's license means destitution for many Americans. That places practical limits on enforcement compared wit

> it's not like there isn't room to improve Losing one's license means destitution for many Americans. That places practical limits on enforcement compared with less car-oriented countries.

HDThoreaun 6mo ago
Tons of options other than removing the ability to drive. More stringent enforcement, higher fines.
embedding-shape 6mo ago
> Losing one's license means destitution for many Americans. That'd be the same for a Swede who lives in the middle of nowhere too. Although I'm sure both groups, if they'd loose their license, would continue driving anyways.
- pixel_popping 6mo ago
  Clearly, a bit weird to assume that no license would automatically mean that the driver stops driving, that's not true at all.
- danaris 6mo ago
  ...But what percentage of Swedes is that? vs the vast majority of working-class Americans. Remember, outside of its few biggest and wealthiest cities, the US just does not have decent, reliable public transport, and most places don't have any.
  - retired 6mo ago
    And how many Americans live in places without any public transport? As a European I spend some time in LA and Las Vegas and while not optimal I could get everywhere without a car. I could even do a day-trip to Bakersfield by bus.
    - jeromegv 6mo ago
      Your anecdata to this one time you took a trip to California doesn’t help. You can just look at % of urban residents that use transit, which is lower in US than any western country. Clearly transit isn’t built or available in a sufficient way to majority of people
OptionOfT 6mo ago
I'm from Belgium, and even with public transportation, there are a large group of people dependent on their driver's license. But if you ask someone if they'd drive without insurance, or without driver's license they look at you like you've asked them to do the impossible. Whereas in the US no-one bats an eye when that happens. Half the time the cops just issue a ticket, and don't even tow the car. And now people who obey the law need to take out extra insurance for under/uninsured motorists.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  > if you ask someone if they'd drive without insurance, or without driver's license they look at you like you've asked them to do the impossible To wit: Europe's 1.8% (and Belgium's 0.7%) uninsured-driver rates are a fraction of America's 15% [1][2]. [1] https://www.mibi.ie/ireland-may-have-highest-level-of-uninsured-in-eu/ https://www.mibi.ie/ireland-may-have-highest-level-of-uninsu... [2] https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-uninsured-motorists https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-uninsure...
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - retired 6mo ago
    In countries like The Netherlands it is impossible to drive around uninsured. So that is probably why the number is so low.
    - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
      > it is impossible to drive around uninsured How?
      - retired 6mo ago
        Because fines are automatic. If you register a vehicle to your name and don't insure it within 28 days you get a €500 fine. The government can fine you up to three times a year for a total of €1500. And that is if you actually pay the fines. If you do not pay the fines and let the fees stack up, you are looking at around €4500 per year. And if you are caught driving uninsured that is a €700 fine on top of all that. With many police cars now having ANPR systems it just isn't possible to drive around uninsured without receiving fines that cost way more than just getting insurance.

> it's not like there isn't room to improve Losing one's license means destitution for many Americans. That places practical limits on enforcement compared with less car-oriented countries.

HDThoreaun 6mo ago

Tons of options other than removing the ability to drive. More stringent enforcement, higher fines.

embedding-shape 6mo ago

> Losing one's license means destitution for many Americans. That'd be the same for a Swede who lives in the middle of nowhere too. Although I'm sure both groups, if they'd loose their license, would continue driving anyways.

pixel_popping 6mo ago
Clearly, a bit weird to assume that no license would automatically mean that the driver stops driving, that's not true at all.
danaris 6mo ago
...But what percentage of Swedes is that? vs the vast majority of working-class Americans. Remember, outside of its few biggest and wealthiest cities, the US just does not have decent, reliable public transport, and most places don't have any.
- retired 6mo ago
  And how many Americans live in places without any public transport? As a European I spend some time in LA and Las Vegas and while not optimal I could get everywhere without a car. I could even do a day-trip to Bakersfield by bus.
  - jeromegv 6mo ago
    Your anecdata to this one time you took a trip to California doesn’t help. You can just look at % of urban residents that use transit, which is lower in US than any western country. Clearly transit isn’t built or available in a sufficient way to majority of people

OptionOfT 6mo ago

I'm from Belgium, and even with public transportation, there are a large group of people dependent on their driver's license. But if you ask someone if they'd drive without insurance, or without driver's license they look at you like you've asked them to do the impossible. Whereas in the US no-one bats an eye when that happens. Half the time the cops just issue a ticket, and don't even tow the car. And now people who obey the law need to take out extra insurance for under/uninsured motorists.

JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
> if you ask someone if they'd drive without insurance, or without driver's license they look at you like you've asked them to do the impossible To wit: Europe's 1.8% (and Belgium's 0.7%) uninsured-driver rates are a fraction of America's 15% [1][2]. [1] https://www.mibi.ie/ireland-may-have-highest-level-of-uninsured-in-eu/ https://www.mibi.ie/ireland-may-have-highest-level-of-uninsu... [2] https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-uninsured-motorists https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-uninsure...
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- retired 6mo ago
  In countries like The Netherlands it is impossible to drive around uninsured. So that is probably why the number is so low.
  - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
    > it is impossible to drive around uninsured How?
    - retired 6mo ago
      Because fines are automatic. If you register a vehicle to your name and don't insure it within 28 days you get a €500 fine. The government can fine you up to three times a year for a total of €1500. And that is if you actually pay the fines. If you do not pay the fines and let the fees stack up, you are looking at around €4500 per year. And if you are caught driving uninsured that is a €700 fine on top of all that. With many police cars now having ANPR systems it just isn't possible to drive around uninsured without receiving fines that cost way more than just getting insurance.