5 ms·
Not on topic, but wow the internet has very quickly devolved into: click -> "making sure you're not a bot", click -> "making sure you're a human", click -> "COO
by tensor 5mo ago
Not on topic, but wow the internet has very quickly devolved into: click -> "making sure you're not a bot", click -> "making sure you're a human", click -> "COOKIES COOKIES COOKIES", click -> "cloudflare something something"
- port11 5mo agoThe internet is such a Tragedy of the Commons… its citizens that act selfishly and in bad faith will slowly make it unusable.
- honktime 5mo agoIts pretty explicitly not a tragedy of the commons. Its a tragedy of the ruling class abusing the resources of the 'commons' to extract value. There is nothing 'commons' about trillion dollar companies extracting all available value from the labor of the working class. That's just the tragedy that'll bring around the death of society, the same tragedy that brings all other tragedys
- amusingimpala75 5mo agoThank you for describing the tragedy of the commons
- multjoy 5mo agoThe commons were never unregulated. This is a tragedy of enclosure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure
- port11 5mo agoWe might get stuck discussing semantics. Large parts of the internet remain public and open; but an incredibly vast part of it is a toxic wasteland. It’s true that many spaces people frequent are ‘enclosed’, but these are also less subject to the abuse taking place in the public and open areas.
- throw-the-towel 5mo agoThe commons in question is the internet itself.
- dyauspitr 5mo agoThere’s definitely lots of problems with the ruling class and wealth disparity. Perhaps the defining problems of our current age. That being said, so many of the plebs suck. Like 2% will ruin everything for everyone.
- throw-the-towel 5mo agoWhile a lot of the plebs do suck, a pleb who sucks causes way less problems than a big corp that sucks simply by virtue of not having too much resources.
- dyauspitr 5mo agoI agree. But whether you agree with me or not, most paradigm shifting changes come from billionaires/corps because they are the only ones with the money to pull off massive shifts. Most innovation is not grassroots and heavily funded by the “elites”. This is how most successful countries have been for atleast the last 100 years. So billionaires add a lot of value even as they cause a lot of pain. The solution in my mind is we absolutely need uncapped billionaires but they need to be effectively taxed (not like 90% but closer to 50%) and they have to have absolutely no influence on the government.
- dirasieb 5mo agotragedy of the commons with your ideological buzzwords sprinkled in, truly innovative
- codedokode 5mo agoNo, it is because citizen allow treating them like this.
- esseph 5mo ago> its citizens that act selfishly and in bad faith will slowly make it unusable It's rarely been the citizens that have been the problem, but the governments and companies that seek the use the network connection for their overwhelming benefit. Re (above): > Not on topic, but wow the internet has very quickly devolved into: click -> "making sure you're not a bot", click -> "making sure you're a human", click -> "COOKIES COOKIES COOKIES", click -> "cloudflare something something"
- fastball 5mo agowat. The protections in place that the OP is talking about are almost entirely due to (not government and company) bad actors.
- tosti 5mo agoI get exactly none of that. Is your adblocker still working?
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- thresh 5mo agoWe had to set it up on the parts of VideoLAN infra so the service would remain usable. Otherwise it was under a constant DDoS by the AI bots.
- nerdralph 5mo agoI highly doubt there is no other technically feasible option to block the AI bots. You end up blocking not just bots, but many humans too. When I clicked on the link and the bot block came up, I just clicked back. I think HN posts should have warnings when the site blocks you from seeing it until you somehow, maybe, prove you are human.
- thresh 5mo agoI'm all ears on how we can fix it otherwise. Keep in mind that those kinds of services: - should not be MITMed by CDNs - are generally ran by volunteers with zero budget, money and time-wise
- nerdralph 5mo agoFirst off, don't block the first connection of the day from a given IP. Rate limit/block from there, for example how sshguard does it. I've seen several posts on HN and elsewhere showing many bots can be fingerprinted and blocked based on HTTP headers and TLS. For the bots that perfectly match the fingerprint of an interactive browser and don't trigger rate limits, use hidden links to tarpits and zip bombs. Many of these have been discussed on HN. Here's the first one that came to memory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42725147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42725147
- thayne 5mo ago> don't block the first connection of the day from a given IP. The bots come from a huge number of IP addresses, that won't really help that much. And it doesn't solve the UX problem either, because most pages require multiple requests for additional assets, and requiring human verification then is a lot more complicated than for the initial request. > For the bots that perfectly match the fingerprint of an interactive browser That requires properly fingerprinting the browser, which will almost certainly have false positives from users who use unusual browsers or use anti-fingerprinting. > use hidden links to tarpits and zip bombs. That can waste the bot users resources, but doesn't necessarily protect your site from bots. And Also requires quite a bit of work that small projects don't have time for. Unless there is a prebuilt solution that is at least as easy to deploy and at least as effective as something like anubis, it isn't really practical for most sites.
- oybng 5mo agorenders your gigabit connection pointless
- rayiner 5mo agoWow I’m glad it’s not just me. I thought my IP block had gotten caught up in some known spamming or something.
- notenlish 5mo agoNearly every single website I'm not logged into these days want me to "confirm I'm not a bot". it is incredibly annoying but what can you do? AI scrapers ruined the web.
- pixelpoet 5mo agoNo one's even clicking anymore, everything implores me to tap or swipe these days, and everything is optimised for humans with one eye above the other. Then I press the X to close the all-caps banner commanding me to install the app, upon which I get sent to the app store. Users of the website refer to it as an app.
- tomwheeler 5mo agoAt least this one was significantly faster than Cloudflare and required no action on my part.
- croes 5mo agoAI is a gift that keeps on giving. High hardware prices, locked information sources, plenty of AI slop etc.
- krzyk 5mo agoRather people unable to setup a static websites where needed. I hate that I can't do a curl, or automate my curls to retrieve data from the web because I either see some cloudfrare protection or some captcha. Information is blocked in walled gardens.
- timpera 5mo agoTheir bot-detection page took more than 40 seconds to complete on my low-end smartphone. This sucks.