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And so they chose Singapore, that bastion of human rights? More seriously, it will be interesting to track this person for a few years to see whether they thri

And so they chose Singapore, that bastion of human rights? More seriously, it will be interesting to track this person for a few years to see whether they thrive in Singapore. Good luck to her and hope she makes a difference.

ndr42 6mo ago
It's not the only reason cited, the first one: Meng took the job because she thinks the U.S. has turned away from a commitment to decarbonize its economy. Also: The Trump administration’s immigration policies
- andsoitis 6mo ago
  > Meng took the job because she thinks the U.S. has turned away from a commitment to decarbonize its economy. If they are mapping that to "reduction in green energy" or "reversal of green energy adoption" I think they are very wrong indeed.
  - sergiosgc 6mo ago
    > If they are mapping that to "reduction in green energy" or "reversal of green energy adoption" I think they are very wrong indeed. Because there is a global trend towards green energy use, caused by economic factors. It's bound to be more expressive outside the US, because of politics.
    - andsoitis 6mo ago
      > Because there is a global trend towards green energy use, caused by economic factors. It's bound to be more expressive outside the US, because of politics. "caused by economic factors" is precisely why I think the conclusion is wrong. The US, if nothing else, structurally prioritizes profit, even if it it does dumb, short-sighted things at times.
  - ndr42 6mo ago
    I think there is more to it than just economics of the US. If your work is not valued, if its more difficult to get grants etc.
ben_w 6mo ago
Moving, especially internationally, is disruptive. Even in bad times, you need to look to where things are going, not where they are in the moment. The USA is dropping on various freedom indices; if you move for this reason, you must ask if will it drop further, will it stabilise, or will it recover? And the same for the destinations you consider. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-rights-index-vdem?tab=line&country=USA~SGP https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-rights-index-vdem?t...
- andsoitis 6mo ago
  Great chart! Thanks. I used it to compare a couple of other places too. Yeah I don't see the gap between the US and Singapore closing in the next 5, 10, or 50 years. The current drop in the US is temporary. The lower score for Singapore is structural. EDIT: but these are "just" stats, and do not speak to any person's personal position, like Meng's.
  - sergiosgc 6mo ago
    It's still to be determined if the drop is temporary. From the outside (EU) I see a downward uninterrupted trend since 9/11 and the Patriot Act.
    - andsoitis 6mo ago
      > It's still to be determined if the drop is temporary. It better be! I think it is wrong to root for “downfall”, even if it makes sense to diversify your risk.
      - sergiosgc 6mo ago
        Of course. I'm not rooting for the US' downfall. It is a loss of western values. It saddens me, but it is a fact they're veering away from the French Revolution principles.
        Paradigm2020 6mo ago
delusional 6mo ago
That's an ironic comment to see on hackernews, a forum most closely associated with silicon valley. Where creating attention traps and gambling apps while claiming to "make the world better" is accepted with a straight face. That's not to "whatabout" it, but I do find it interesting how blind we are to our own delusions.
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  It's ironic to me to see comments like these, I've posted commentes on HN since 2013 sometime and never even visited SV, and do my best to reject what I see as the "worst ideas from SV", I'm probably almost purely opposite of that typical person. And there are a lot of people like me here too. I don't think there are many "make the world better but actually I mean make myself more money" types are left here on the forum, if they are, they're a lot more silent today than they were around 2012-2014.
embedding-shape 6mo ago
What was the last country Singapore waged war against, and when was that? AFAIK, I don't think Singapore has threatened the sovereignty of a single state after the inception of the country. Probably it isn't a perfect country, probably no country is.
- andsoitis 6mo ago
  If decarbonization, immigration, and human rights are the drivers, there are better countries to pick than Singapore, including Japan, many in Europe, Costa Rica, New Zealand, etc. On the other hand, Meng is probably right in picking Singapore from a self-interested position because that's where she studied (so has ties) and she believes it gives her a better stage for her research. Notably, she did not choose to go to China, which is where she grew up. So it is noteworthy that she has concluded better opportunities in Singapore.
awakeasleep 6mo ago
When you think of the outlook of the USA, where for example the secretary of health and human services is a crusader against vaccination, do you feel like it’s a country that’s rising to meet the challenges of the future? Because to me it feels like we are in the beginning of a fall of civilization! I don’t have the perspective to really say I know what’s going on, but I trust the scientist knows her business and her industry well enough to make a call for herself. Do you have anything specific to show she’s making the wrong decision?
- andsoitis 6mo ago
  > Because to me it feels like we are in the beginning of a fall of civilization! That's a bit dramatic!
  - embedding-shape 6mo ago
    Yeah, probably seeing it from the "inside" sort of makes it seem like "beginning of a fall of civilization" but for the rest of us on the outside it looks like the slow fall of an empire/hegemony. Still dramatic I guess, but not as dramatic I suppose.
dathinab 6mo ago
it isn't but reading the article helps her reason wasn't some my tech shouldn't be bad people high moral ground but that she felt she can't do here work on here previous job anymore and the next job happened to be in Singapore, and the reasoning in order was also - reduced funding / many projects getting side lined - US moving away from decarbonization - immigration policies discrimination against Chinese born people (even if they have left Chinese citizenship behind/are US citizens) - and here not wanting to be put in a position where she is pressured to work directly on batteries for weapon systems like drones (!= general use systems being used in a military context) so she chose Singapore because someone in Singapore presented here with a good job offer where she doesn't have to worry about this things i.e. this isn't about the US being "evil" and Singapore being better, but about the US no longer being as good a place for civilian use battery production scientist

ndr42 6mo ago

It's not the only reason cited, the first one: Meng took the job because she thinks the U.S. has turned away from a commitment to decarbonize its economy. Also: The Trump administration’s immigration policies

andsoitis 6mo ago
> Meng took the job because she thinks the U.S. has turned away from a commitment to decarbonize its economy. If they are mapping that to "reduction in green energy" or "reversal of green energy adoption" I think they are very wrong indeed.
- sergiosgc 6mo ago
  > If they are mapping that to "reduction in green energy" or "reversal of green energy adoption" I think they are very wrong indeed. Because there is a global trend towards green energy use, caused by economic factors. It's bound to be more expressive outside the US, because of politics.
  - andsoitis 6mo ago
    > Because there is a global trend towards green energy use, caused by economic factors. It's bound to be more expressive outside the US, because of politics. "caused by economic factors" is precisely why I think the conclusion is wrong. The US, if nothing else, structurally prioritizes profit, even if it it does dumb, short-sighted things at times.
- ndr42 6mo ago
  I think there is more to it than just economics of the US. If your work is not valued, if its more difficult to get grants etc.

ben_w 6mo ago

Moving, especially internationally, is disruptive. Even in bad times, you need to look to where things are going, not where they are in the moment. The USA is dropping on various freedom indices; if you move for this reason, you must ask if will it drop further, will it stabilise, or will it recover? And the same for the destinations you consider. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-rights-index-vdem?tab=line&country=USA~SGP https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-rights-index-vdem?t...

andsoitis 6mo ago
Great chart! Thanks. I used it to compare a couple of other places too. Yeah I don't see the gap between the US and Singapore closing in the next 5, 10, or 50 years. The current drop in the US is temporary. The lower score for Singapore is structural. EDIT: but these are "just" stats, and do not speak to any person's personal position, like Meng's.
- sergiosgc 6mo ago
  It's still to be determined if the drop is temporary. From the outside (EU) I see a downward uninterrupted trend since 9/11 and the Patriot Act.
  - andsoitis 6mo ago
    > It's still to be determined if the drop is temporary. It better be! I think it is wrong to root for “downfall”, even if it makes sense to diversify your risk.
    - sergiosgc 6mo ago
      Of course. I'm not rooting for the US' downfall. It is a loss of western values. It saddens me, but it is a fact they're veering away from the French Revolution principles.
      - Paradigm2020 6mo ago

delusional 6mo ago

That's an ironic comment to see on hackernews, a forum most closely associated with silicon valley. Where creating attention traps and gambling apps while claiming to "make the world better" is accepted with a straight face. That's not to "whatabout" it, but I do find it interesting how blind we are to our own delusions.

embedding-shape 6mo ago
It's ironic to me to see comments like these, I've posted commentes on HN since 2013 sometime and never even visited SV, and do my best to reject what I see as the "worst ideas from SV", I'm probably almost purely opposite of that typical person. And there are a lot of people like me here too. I don't think there are many "make the world better but actually I mean make myself more money" types are left here on the forum, if they are, they're a lot more silent today than they were around 2012-2014.

embedding-shape 6mo ago

What was the last country Singapore waged war against, and when was that? AFAIK, I don't think Singapore has threatened the sovereignty of a single state after the inception of the country. Probably it isn't a perfect country, probably no country is.

andsoitis 6mo ago
If decarbonization, immigration, and human rights are the drivers, there are better countries to pick than Singapore, including Japan, many in Europe, Costa Rica, New Zealand, etc. On the other hand, Meng is probably right in picking Singapore from a self-interested position because that's where she studied (so has ties) and she believes it gives her a better stage for her research. Notably, she did not choose to go to China, which is where she grew up. So it is noteworthy that she has concluded better opportunities in Singapore.

awakeasleep 6mo ago

When you think of the outlook of the USA, where for example the secretary of health and human services is a crusader against vaccination, do you feel like it’s a country that’s rising to meet the challenges of the future? Because to me it feels like we are in the beginning of a fall of civilization! I don’t have the perspective to really say I know what’s going on, but I trust the scientist knows her business and her industry well enough to make a call for herself. Do you have anything specific to show she’s making the wrong decision?

andsoitis 6mo ago
> Because to me it feels like we are in the beginning of a fall of civilization! That's a bit dramatic!
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Yeah, probably seeing it from the "inside" sort of makes it seem like "beginning of a fall of civilization" but for the rest of us on the outside it looks like the slow fall of an empire/hegemony. Still dramatic I guess, but not as dramatic I suppose.

dathinab 6mo ago

it isn't but reading the article helps her reason wasn't some my tech shouldn't be bad people high moral ground but that she felt she can't do here work on here previous job anymore and the next job happened to be in Singapore, and the reasoning in order was also - reduced funding / many projects getting side lined - US moving away from decarbonization - immigration policies discrimination against Chinese born people (even if they have left Chinese citizenship behind/are US citizens) - and here not wanting to be put in a position where she is pressured to work directly on batteries for weapon systems like drones (!= general use systems being used in a military context) so she chose Singapore because someone in Singapore presented here with a good job offer where she doesn't have to worry about this things i.e. this isn't about the US being "evil" and Singapore being better, but about the US no longer being as good a place for civilian use battery production scientist