5 ms·

My father in law is a Persian speaker. I was very surprised to learn that thank you (mersi) is the same as in French, and OK/indeed (baleh) is the same as in Sp

My father in law is a Persian speaker. I was very surprised to learn that thank you (mersi) is the same as in French, and OK/indeed (baleh) is the same as in Spanish.

bradrn 6mo ago
Persian mersi is actually a direct borrowing from the French [1]. Not sure about the other one, but I guess it’s just a coincidence, as happens so often in language [2]. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B3%DB%8C#Persian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B3%DB%8C#Pers... [2] https://zompist.com/chance.htm https://zompist.com/chance.htm
nephihaha 6mo ago
Arigato in Japanese is said to be a borrowing from Portuguese Obrigado (might want to verify that!).
- lproven 6mo ago
  No, it's documented, as is tempura. It's like pancakes: you make them before the time of fasting. "The Time of X" in Spanish is "tempora X" and I would bet Portuguese is similar. There are loads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_words_of_Portuguese_origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_words_of_Port...
  - nephihaha 6mo ago
    Gura mie eu.
    - lproven 6mo ago
      She dty vea. :-) (I do not actually speak Manx, but 2026 is the Year of the Manx Language. I should learn some.)
      - nephihaha 6mo ago
        I know a little. I was taught by Brian Stowell many years ago and have his novel here along with a Manx Bible.
        lproven 6mo ago
        Oh, fantastic!
  - card_zero 6mo ago
    It's listed there under False cognates. > evidence indicates arigatō has a purely Japanese origin I remain suspicious, though. Maybe what happened was the popularization of an existing Japanese term under the influence of Portuguese Jesuits, since it sounded similar to obrigado?
    - nephihaha 6mo ago
      Perfectly possible. I think I've seen evidence elsewhere of similar but unrelated words influencing each other. For example, round about where I live the Romany word "shan" is used meaning "mean" or "worthless", but it seems to have been influenced by the unrelated "sean" in Gaelic (also pronounced "shan") which means "old". So it's come to mean something worn out as well.
      - BalinKing 6mo ago
        In general, I think this phenomenon is called "phono-semantic matching": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phono-semantic_matching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phono-semantic_matching.
- rhplus 6mo ago
  Even more interesting is when words are borrowed back! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reborrowing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reborrowing For example, katsu from cutlet, is borrowed back into English to mean… cutlet. And when combined with “curry” as in “katsu curry” the journey meanders all the way through Tamil, Portuguese, Japanese and English, following sailors where they went.
- qingcharles 6mo ago
  Japanese is fascinating to me as a language freak for the enormous amount of borrowing. As an English speaker, as long as you can decode katakana (easy to learn) you can probably walk around the streets of Tokyo and read half the signs.
tralarpa 6mo ago
Spanish vale and English value have the same Latin origin. Persian bale is an Arabic loanword.

My father in law is a Persian speaker. I was very surprised to learn that thank you (mersi) is the same as in French, and OK/indeed (baleh) is the same as in Spanish.

bradrn 6mo ago

Persian mersi is actually a direct borrowing from the French [1]. Not sure about the other one, but I guess it’s just a coincidence, as happens so often in language [2]. [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B3%DB%8C#Persian https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%B3%DB%8C#Pers... [2] https://zompist.com/chance.htm https://zompist.com/chance.htm

nephihaha 6mo ago

Arigato in Japanese is said to be a borrowing from Portuguese Obrigado (might want to verify that!).

lproven 6mo ago
No, it's documented, as is tempura. It's like pancakes: you make them before the time of fasting. "The Time of X" in Spanish is "tempora X" and I would bet Portuguese is similar. There are loads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_words_of_Portuguese_origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_words_of_Port...
- nephihaha 6mo ago
  Gura mie eu.
  - lproven 6mo ago
    She dty vea. :-) (I do not actually speak Manx, but 2026 is the Year of the Manx Language. I should learn some.)
    - nephihaha 6mo ago
      I know a little. I was taught by Brian Stowell many years ago and have his novel here along with a Manx Bible.
      - lproven 6mo ago
        Oh, fantastic!
- card_zero 6mo ago
  It's listed there under False cognates. > evidence indicates arigatō has a purely Japanese origin I remain suspicious, though. Maybe what happened was the popularization of an existing Japanese term under the influence of Portuguese Jesuits, since it sounded similar to obrigado?
  - nephihaha 6mo ago
    Perfectly possible. I think I've seen evidence elsewhere of similar but unrelated words influencing each other. For example, round about where I live the Romany word "shan" is used meaning "mean" or "worthless", but it seems to have been influenced by the unrelated "sean" in Gaelic (also pronounced "shan") which means "old". So it's come to mean something worn out as well.
    - BalinKing 6mo ago
      In general, I think this phenomenon is called "phono-semantic matching": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phono-semantic_matching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phono-semantic_matching.
rhplus 6mo ago
Even more interesting is when words are borrowed back! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reborrowing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reborrowing For example, katsu from cutlet, is borrowed back into English to mean… cutlet. And when combined with “curry” as in “katsu curry” the journey meanders all the way through Tamil, Portuguese, Japanese and English, following sailors where they went.
qingcharles 6mo ago
Japanese is fascinating to me as a language freak for the enormous amount of borrowing. As an English speaker, as long as you can decode katakana (easy to learn) you can probably walk around the streets of Tokyo and read half the signs.

tralarpa 6mo ago

Spanish vale and English value have the same Latin origin. Persian bale is an Arabic loanword.