4 ms·

The Cambrian and Eocene reached around +14C compared to today[1]. Two of the warmest periods in Earth's history, granted. But life thrived. Governments, priv

The Cambrian and Eocene reached around +14C compared to today[1]. Two of the warmest periods in Earth's history, granted. But life thrived. Governments, private property ownership, civilization, not as battle tested. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/media/File:All_palaeotemps.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record#/m...

lukeify 5mo ago
[dead]
reverius42 5mo ago
Hmm. I do like civilization. How about humans, would human life thrive?
- timschmidt 5mo ago
  No reason not. It would push human habitable zones into the high mid-latitudes and subpolar regions though. 55–65° N/S would be closest to comfortable temperatures. So, northern Canada and Russia, Greenland, Antarctica. The mad rush to get there would likely extract a heavy toll.
  - rwyinuse 5mo ago
    The main problem is agriculture. If rain patterns get severely disrupted in most of world's current breadbaskets, it takes time to increase production in areas that may now have more favourable climate. During that time lots of people would starve. Rain patterns and extreme weather events are the things to really worry about. Temperature changes alone can be mostly dealt with by planting different crops.
    - timschmidt 5mo ago
      No doubt the transition period would likely involve more death than most catastrophes in history. In part because there are simply more people. Available sunlight is also less nearer the poles, which already affects agriculture in places like Greenland. Crops would shift. We'd be more dependent on energy and supplemental light for certain crops. Adjustment would be difficult. But quite a bit of land would still be habitable.
      - Throaway199999 5mo ago
        Disease and parasitic life would also explode in all previously-habitable parts of the Earth due to increased temp.
    - reverius42 5mo ago
      Oh, yeah, like even if it's survivable for humanity in general, it's going to kill billions of humans.
    - apothegm 5mo ago
      It’s not just about time to increase production. A lot of crops that grow at lower latitudes won’t have enough time to mature in the short summers of higher latitudes and may suffer from weaker sunlight due to the lower angle resulting in more intervening atmosphere. We might eventually be able to breed or genetically modify crops to be hardier — but the former takes time and the latter requires sufficient remaining civilization and security to support the labs.
  - reverius42 5mo ago
    Interesting. Paying close attention to geopolitics lately, it kind of seems like we're already in a slow-motion mad rush to own these places. Remember when Trump almost invaded Greenland?
    - timschmidt 5mo ago
      Certain investment firms purchased cold-weather ports which were iced in 8 months a year, 20 years ago, which now operate nearly year-round.
      - reverius42 5mo ago
        Sounds like a good long term investment. And maybe not that long term!
    - justinclift 5mo ago
      > Remember when Trump almost invaded Greenland? That one may not be out of the woods yet.
  - exe34 5mo ago
    > The mad rush to get there would likely extract a heavy toll. Climate refugee situation will dwarf any war refugee issues. They claim "invasion" now, but this one will be an actual invasion.
- avadodin 5mo ago
  I know civilization sounds appealing but have you considered giant dragonflies?
  - VorpalWay 5mo ago
    From what I read recently (and I don't remember where it was), the current thinking is that it wasn't oxygen levels or temperatures, but the lack of predators that let dragonflies grow that big. A big dragonfly is much slower and an easier target. So unless you get rid of birds, you won't have giant dragonflies.
    - cucumber3732842 5mo ago
      You need high oxygen content in the air though. Insect style circulatory systems aren't efficient enough to get oxygen to the cells without the air having a super high concentration of oxygen to begin with. Basically like how when people can't breath good you put them on oxygen to keep them alive only getting oxygen into the blood is the bottleneck rather than into the body.
Projectiboga 5mo ago
Our bodies won't be able to handle a temperature regime that hot overall. The factor to research is Wet Bulb Temperature Effect. Basically our bodies are like sports cars and keeping our body cool is a challange under high humidity with temperature near our body temp. https://www.weather.gov/ict/WBGT https://www.weather.gov/ict/WBGT https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/humans-cant-endure-temperatures-and-humidities-high-previously-thought https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/humans-cant-endure-t... UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. — As climate change nudges the global temperature higher, there is rising interest in the maximum environmental conditions like heat and humidity to which humans can adapt. New Penn State research found that in humid climates, that temperature may be lower than previously thought. It has been widely believed that a 35°C wet-bulb temperature (equal to 95°F at 100% humidity or 115°F at 50% humidity) was the maximum a human could endure before they could no longer adequately regulate their body temperature, which would potentially cause heat stroke or death over a prolonged exposure. Wet-bulb temperature is read by a thermometer with a wet wick over its bulb and is affected by humidity and air movement. It represents a humid temperature at which the air is saturated and holds as much moisture as it can in the form of water vapor; a person’s sweat will not evaporate at that skin temperature. But in their new study, the researchers found that the actual maximum wet-bulb temperature is lower — about 31°C wet-bulb or 87°F at 100% humidity — even for young, healthy subjects. The temperature for older populations, who are more vulnerable to heat, is likely even lower.
- timschmidt 5mo ago
  > Our bodies won't be able to handle a temperature regime that hot overall. The factor to research is Wet Bulb Temperature Effect. That's a problem at the Equator, but not at the higher latitudes.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 5mo ago
    It's a problem anywhere, just that the dry bulb temperature needed to reach a given wet bulb temperature goes up as humidity goes down.
    - 5mo ago

lukeify 5mo ago

[dead]

reverius42 5mo ago

Hmm. I do like civilization. How about humans, would human life thrive?

timschmidt 5mo ago
No reason not. It would push human habitable zones into the high mid-latitudes and subpolar regions though. 55–65° N/S would be closest to comfortable temperatures. So, northern Canada and Russia, Greenland, Antarctica. The mad rush to get there would likely extract a heavy toll.
- rwyinuse 5mo ago
  The main problem is agriculture. If rain patterns get severely disrupted in most of world's current breadbaskets, it takes time to increase production in areas that may now have more favourable climate. During that time lots of people would starve. Rain patterns and extreme weather events are the things to really worry about. Temperature changes alone can be mostly dealt with by planting different crops.
  - timschmidt 5mo ago
    No doubt the transition period would likely involve more death than most catastrophes in history. In part because there are simply more people. Available sunlight is also less nearer the poles, which already affects agriculture in places like Greenland. Crops would shift. We'd be more dependent on energy and supplemental light for certain crops. Adjustment would be difficult. But quite a bit of land would still be habitable.
    - Throaway199999 5mo ago
      Disease and parasitic life would also explode in all previously-habitable parts of the Earth due to increased temp.
  - reverius42 5mo ago
    Oh, yeah, like even if it's survivable for humanity in general, it's going to kill billions of humans.
  - apothegm 5mo ago
    It’s not just about time to increase production. A lot of crops that grow at lower latitudes won’t have enough time to mature in the short summers of higher latitudes and may suffer from weaker sunlight due to the lower angle resulting in more intervening atmosphere. We might eventually be able to breed or genetically modify crops to be hardier — but the former takes time and the latter requires sufficient remaining civilization and security to support the labs.
- reverius42 5mo ago
  Interesting. Paying close attention to geopolitics lately, it kind of seems like we're already in a slow-motion mad rush to own these places. Remember when Trump almost invaded Greenland?
  - timschmidt 5mo ago
    Certain investment firms purchased cold-weather ports which were iced in 8 months a year, 20 years ago, which now operate nearly year-round.
    - reverius42 5mo ago
      Sounds like a good long term investment. And maybe not that long term!
  - justinclift 5mo ago
    > Remember when Trump almost invaded Greenland? That one may not be out of the woods yet.
- exe34 5mo ago
  > The mad rush to get there would likely extract a heavy toll. Climate refugee situation will dwarf any war refugee issues. They claim "invasion" now, but this one will be an actual invasion.
avadodin 5mo ago
I know civilization sounds appealing but have you considered giant dragonflies?
- VorpalWay 5mo ago
  From what I read recently (and I don't remember where it was), the current thinking is that it wasn't oxygen levels or temperatures, but the lack of predators that let dragonflies grow that big. A big dragonfly is much slower and an easier target. So unless you get rid of birds, you won't have giant dragonflies.
  - cucumber3732842 5mo ago
    You need high oxygen content in the air though. Insect style circulatory systems aren't efficient enough to get oxygen to the cells without the air having a super high concentration of oxygen to begin with. Basically like how when people can't breath good you put them on oxygen to keep them alive only getting oxygen into the blood is the bottleneck rather than into the body.

Projectiboga 5mo ago

Our bodies won't be able to handle a temperature regime that hot overall. The factor to research is Wet Bulb Temperature Effect. Basically our bodies are like sports cars and keeping our body cool is a challange under high humidity with temperature near our body temp. https://www.weather.gov/ict/WBGT https://www.weather.gov/ict/WBGT https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/humans-cant-endure-temperatures-and-humidities-high-previously-thought https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/humans-cant-endure-t... UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. — As climate change nudges the global temperature higher, there is rising interest in the maximum environmental conditions like heat and humidity to which humans can adapt. New Penn State research found that in humid climates, that temperature may be lower than previously thought. It has been widely believed that a 35°C wet-bulb temperature (equal to 95°F at 100% humidity or 115°F at 50% humidity) was the maximum a human could endure before they could no longer adequately regulate their body temperature, which would potentially cause heat stroke or death over a prolonged exposure. Wet-bulb temperature is read by a thermometer with a wet wick over its bulb and is affected by humidity and air movement. It represents a humid temperature at which the air is saturated and holds as much moisture as it can in the form of water vapor; a person’s sweat will not evaporate at that skin temperature. But in their new study, the researchers found that the actual maximum wet-bulb temperature is lower — about 31°C wet-bulb or 87°F at 100% humidity — even for young, healthy subjects. The temperature for older populations, who are more vulnerable to heat, is likely even lower.

timschmidt 5mo ago
> Our bodies won't be able to handle a temperature regime that hot overall. The factor to research is Wet Bulb Temperature Effect. That's a problem at the Equator, but not at the higher latitudes.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5mo ago
  It's a problem anywhere, just that the dry bulb temperature needed to reach a given wet bulb temperature goes up as humidity goes down.
  - 5mo ago