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There is no algorithm that can be memorized. Leela's understanding is in the weights, not neural net algorithms. I'm familiar with the Chinese room argument an

There is no algorithm that can be memorized. Leela's understanding is in the weights, not neural net algorithms. I'm familiar with the Chinese room argument and I've never accepted it because what it describes isn't real. It imagines some algorithm for which there is no evidence. Show me this process running and then ask me if it understands Chinese. To me this is as philosophically dubious as the notion of p-zombies.

slopinthebag 6mo ago
You can actually do calculations of LLMs and models like Leela on paper or in your head if you had enough time (and patience)! It's basically just a whole lotta matrix multiplication. It's a thought experiment and its validity does not rest on the ability for someone to actually do these calculations in a suitable timespan. The specifics of the algorithm have no relevance. If you did see the process running, when asked would you say it understands Chinese?
- jeremyjh 6mo ago
  You can do a thought experiment about an invisible pink dragon, that doesn't mean I have to take a position on it. "Suppose" is doing all the lifting. My position is that experiment can't happen as described. There is no algorithm for manipulating abstract symbols in a manner that "speaks chinese" without "understanding" it. The experiment bakes in the conclusion from the beginning.
  - slopinthebag 6mo ago
    > My position is that experiment can't happen as described. Say you are the room and are passed symbols on paper, like the suits of playing cards. You use a book (lookup table) to transform series of symbols into a new symbol, and pass it out of the room to the observer. You get passed ♠ + ♣ and you return ♢. Do you have an understanding of the underlying concept? If so, reply and tell me what it is! But if you don't know what the underlying concept is, how could you argue that the person in the room does?

slopinthebag 6mo ago

You can actually do calculations of LLMs and models like Leela on paper or in your head if you had enough time (and patience)! It's basically just a whole lotta matrix multiplication. It's a thought experiment and its validity does not rest on the ability for someone to actually do these calculations in a suitable timespan. The specifics of the algorithm have no relevance. If you did see the process running, when asked would you say it understands Chinese?

jeremyjh 6mo ago
You can do a thought experiment about an invisible pink dragon, that doesn't mean I have to take a position on it. "Suppose" is doing all the lifting. My position is that experiment can't happen as described. There is no algorithm for manipulating abstract symbols in a manner that "speaks chinese" without "understanding" it. The experiment bakes in the conclusion from the beginning.
- slopinthebag 6mo ago
  > My position is that experiment can't happen as described. Say you are the room and are passed symbols on paper, like the suits of playing cards. You use a book (lookup table) to transform series of symbols into a new symbol, and pass it out of the room to the observer. You get passed ♠ + ♣ and you return ♢. Do you have an understanding of the underlying concept? If so, reply and tell me what it is! But if you don't know what the underlying concept is, how could you argue that the person in the room does?