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It has been proven helpful in reducing the amount of rockets fired at Israeli civillans[1]. I'll repeat the above question, what's your solution? [1] Number o

It has been proven helpful in reducing the amount of rockets fired at Israeli civillans[1]. I'll repeat the above question, what's your solution? [1] Number of rockets fired from Gaza Strip to Israel over time; a similar operation took place in December 2008 http://sonoflaser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%92%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D.jpg http://sonoflaser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/%D7%A9%D7%9...

AtlasLion 14y ago
So you see it an acceptable to slaughter 1,417 Palestinians, for the "feeling" of safety of Israelis. Palestinians on the other hand, shouldn't expect any safety or dignity. And again, read this book if you really are thinking about a solution. http://mikopeled.com/category/the-generals-son-by-miko-peled/ http://mikopeled.com/category/the-generals-son-by-miko-peled...
- yonilevy 14y ago
  Had you asked about the death of ~500 Palestinian civillians and ~700 Hamas members in exchange for the improved safety of Israelis under the given conditions, my answer would be yes. I can't really explain it over HN comments though. I've skimmed through the page linked, couldn't find anything relevant to the current situation. I might read further, thanks for sharing.
pyre 14y ago
> I'll repeat the above question, what's your solution? Responses like this are not aimed to be constructive, but to put a stop to reasonable discussion. If I see that the current strategy is ineffective, I'm not allowed to say so until I have a fully-formed solution that is better? It's better to relentlessly pursue a course of action that is ineffective and has a significant cost in human lives, because 'we' can't think of anything better to do?
- oelewapperke 14y ago
  How about we take the declaration of human rights solution. As soon as one side in the conflict uses non-clearly marked military bases and/or forces, the other side gains the right to fire on civilians if they suspect (not: can prove) that there are disguised combatants and/or military equipment near them. Does that sound reasonable ? If Israel stops fighting today, tomorrow the holocaust restarts. If Palestine stops fighting today, tomorrow we have peace.
- yonilevy 14y ago
  I didn't mean to stop the discussion, I'm simply trying to understand your point of view (I might learn something). Do you think Israel should sit idly by while the 25K citizens of Sderot can hardly live their lives?
  - kamaal 14y ago
    They absolutely can't. Yes, you are right. The alternatives? Two state solution needs to go ahead. But Israel seems to be in full steam to stop the current UN bid. At the same time they don't want a one state solution either(Which more or less is sort of inevitable now). Their neighbors don't love them much. No matter who they are, the rulers of those nations might, out of force. And that more or less is only to save their seats. But Arab spring has proven nothing is permanent. Egypt only looked super pro Israel under Mubarak and now is super pro Palestine just months after. Absolutely the worst sort of geographical location to be and form your nation. Unless you want to be in a perpetual state of war, crisis and fighting. Yes Israel seems to have an upper hand in military wise currently, but as I said what is permanent? But Israel was not formed to be in an infinite state of war, but for Jews around the world to live in peace and without fear. A big deadlock situation, dominated by massive distrust between both parties.
    - yonilevy 14y ago
      The problem is nobody on the Palestinian side seems interested in the two state solution. Mahmoud Abbas refused a very generous offer in 2009[1], and since then kept refusing to further negotiate. Hamas aren't much into negotiating either, so there's no one to talk to. My hope is that one of the locks in this situation is held by Iran, and once it's released we may see new opportunities. [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/28/AR2009052803614.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05...
  - johncoltrane 14y ago
    What about the people who "lived their lives" in Najd before being expelled to Gaza in order to install another town with a name in another language and a population from other countries on their own land? I would be pissed. Very seriously pissed. Do you think the people of Palestine should sit idly while some foreigners grab their lands and park them like animals in a reserve? Do you seriously think that what was done was right and justified and that the Palestinians don't have valid reasons for being pissed off against Israel? How would you feel if what happened to Palestine happened to the country you live in?

AtlasLion 14y ago

So you see it an acceptable to slaughter 1,417 Palestinians, for the "feeling" of safety of Israelis. Palestinians on the other hand, shouldn't expect any safety or dignity. And again, read this book if you really are thinking about a solution. http://mikopeled.com/category/the-generals-son-by-miko-peled/ http://mikopeled.com/category/the-generals-son-by-miko-peled...

yonilevy 14y ago
Had you asked about the death of ~500 Palestinian civillians and ~700 Hamas members in exchange for the improved safety of Israelis under the given conditions, my answer would be yes. I can't really explain it over HN comments though. I've skimmed through the page linked, couldn't find anything relevant to the current situation. I might read further, thanks for sharing.

pyre 14y ago

> I'll repeat the above question, what's your solution? Responses like this are not aimed to be constructive, but to put a stop to reasonable discussion. If I see that the current strategy is ineffective, I'm not allowed to say so until I have a fully-formed solution that is better? It's better to relentlessly pursue a course of action that is ineffective and has a significant cost in human lives, because 'we' can't think of anything better to do?

oelewapperke 14y ago
How about we take the declaration of human rights solution. As soon as one side in the conflict uses non-clearly marked military bases and/or forces, the other side gains the right to fire on civilians if they suspect (not: can prove) that there are disguised combatants and/or military equipment near them. Does that sound reasonable ? If Israel stops fighting today, tomorrow the holocaust restarts. If Palestine stops fighting today, tomorrow we have peace.
yonilevy 14y ago
I didn't mean to stop the discussion, I'm simply trying to understand your point of view (I might learn something). Do you think Israel should sit idly by while the 25K citizens of Sderot can hardly live their lives?
- kamaal 14y ago
  They absolutely can't. Yes, you are right. The alternatives? Two state solution needs to go ahead. But Israel seems to be in full steam to stop the current UN bid. At the same time they don't want a one state solution either(Which more or less is sort of inevitable now). Their neighbors don't love them much. No matter who they are, the rulers of those nations might, out of force. And that more or less is only to save their seats. But Arab spring has proven nothing is permanent. Egypt only looked super pro Israel under Mubarak and now is super pro Palestine just months after. Absolutely the worst sort of geographical location to be and form your nation. Unless you want to be in a perpetual state of war, crisis and fighting. Yes Israel seems to have an upper hand in military wise currently, but as I said what is permanent? But Israel was not formed to be in an infinite state of war, but for Jews around the world to live in peace and without fear. A big deadlock situation, dominated by massive distrust between both parties.
  - yonilevy 14y ago
    The problem is nobody on the Palestinian side seems interested in the two state solution. Mahmoud Abbas refused a very generous offer in 2009[1], and since then kept refusing to further negotiate. Hamas aren't much into negotiating either, so there's no one to talk to. My hope is that one of the locks in this situation is held by Iran, and once it's released we may see new opportunities. [1]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/28/AR2009052803614.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05...
- johncoltrane 14y ago
  What about the people who "lived their lives" in Najd before being expelled to Gaza in order to install another town with a name in another language and a population from other countries on their own land? I would be pissed. Very seriously pissed. Do you think the people of Palestine should sit idly while some foreigners grab their lands and park them like animals in a reserve? Do you seriously think that what was done was right and justified and that the Palestinians don't have valid reasons for being pissed off against Israel? How would you feel if what happened to Palestine happened to the country you live in?