4 ms·

This smells to me an awful lot like the "You're not a real ham if you don't use Morse code", "You're not a real machinist if you use CNC", "Your mechanical

This smells to me an awful lot like the "You're not a real ham if you don't use Morse code", "You're not a real machinist if you use CNC", "Your mechanical drawing skills are going to atrophy if you use CAD CAM. "You should manually tape PCB layouts, so you have more control. And another grandfather's favorite, "Why do you want to use the forklift? You won't always have one, and a pry bar and rollers are good enough, and you learn the value of real work."

halestock 5mo ago
I'd say it's more like you're not a real driver if you use Waymo to get around everywhere.
- grim_io 5mo ago
  Sure, but I'm a software developer, not a typist. A delivery person is still delivering stuff, even if it turns out that using a waymo is cheaper/faster.
  - QuercusMax 5mo ago
    An L7 SWE TLM at Google once told me that he enjoys building software, he just doesn't like the data entry parts - that's why he was a manager and not an IC. I think there are a lot of ICs who may need to re-evaluate what their job actually entails and what they're paid for.
bccdee 5mo ago
I think there's a big difference between "your drawing skills will atrophy if you use CAD to draw for you" and "your brain will atrophy if you ask an LLM to think for you." Personally I don't judge people for being unable to draw, but I do judge them for being unable to think for themselves.
- forgetfreeman 5mo ago
  I judge the shit out of people who can't draw AND bill themselves as visual artists so there is that.
- hirvi74 5mo ago
  I can't believe I am about to post this comment, but I feel a compulsion: The human mind adapts the best it can for its environment. While not being able to think for oneself is highly detrimental, there may come a time in the distant future where strong abilities to think and reason are less valuable/important. I know it may come off as absolutely ridiculous, but I do not think (no pun intended) that such an uncomfortable idea violates any principles of evolution. I would argue our ability to think and reason about our environment has been paramount to the survival humanity. Just as hunting abilities were paramount to the ancestors of both my pet dogs. However, both my dogs would make horrible hunters and would likely starve or die of exposure if left in the woods. But the ability to hunt has been useless to my dogs for their entire lives and for many generations prior. Both my dogs still have remnants of a prey-drive, and I would argue humans will likely retain some ability to think and reason. But just because an ability is valuable now does not guarantee its future value. The rise in literacy likely contributed great harm to the ability for one memorize entire epics like ancient Greek poets. However, is there really much value in the ability to memorize an entire Greek epic? Not to mention, I have met some individuals in my life who would likely cause less harm to themselves and others had an LLM thought on their behalf (I'm kidding, of course).
  - AuthAuth 5mo ago
    If we run with your theory that the human mind adapts and thinking becomes less valuable that should be setting off alarmbells. What kind of world would be one where thinking is not considered a valuable skill. If I thought that was true I would be in favour of restricting AI use to certain workflows.
  - bccdee 5mo ago
    > such an uncomfortable idea violates any principles of evolution. Evolution isn't a normative thing. It's perfectly possible for us to evolve into something that morally shouldn't exist, especially in an artificial environment.

halestock 5mo ago

I'd say it's more like you're not a real driver if you use Waymo to get around everywhere.

grim_io 5mo ago
Sure, but I'm a software developer, not a typist. A delivery person is still delivering stuff, even if it turns out that using a waymo is cheaper/faster.
- QuercusMax 5mo ago
  An L7 SWE TLM at Google once told me that he enjoys building software, he just doesn't like the data entry parts - that's why he was a manager and not an IC. I think there are a lot of ICs who may need to re-evaluate what their job actually entails and what they're paid for.

bccdee 5mo ago

I think there's a big difference between "your drawing skills will atrophy if you use CAD to draw for you" and "your brain will atrophy if you ask an LLM to think for you." Personally I don't judge people for being unable to draw, but I do judge them for being unable to think for themselves.

forgetfreeman 5mo ago
I judge the shit out of people who can't draw AND bill themselves as visual artists so there is that.
hirvi74 5mo ago
I can't believe I am about to post this comment, but I feel a compulsion: The human mind adapts the best it can for its environment. While not being able to think for oneself is highly detrimental, there may come a time in the distant future where strong abilities to think and reason are less valuable/important. I know it may come off as absolutely ridiculous, but I do not think (no pun intended) that such an uncomfortable idea violates any principles of evolution. I would argue our ability to think and reason about our environment has been paramount to the survival humanity. Just as hunting abilities were paramount to the ancestors of both my pet dogs. However, both my dogs would make horrible hunters and would likely starve or die of exposure if left in the woods. But the ability to hunt has been useless to my dogs for their entire lives and for many generations prior. Both my dogs still have remnants of a prey-drive, and I would argue humans will likely retain some ability to think and reason. But just because an ability is valuable now does not guarantee its future value. The rise in literacy likely contributed great harm to the ability for one memorize entire epics like ancient Greek poets. However, is there really much value in the ability to memorize an entire Greek epic? Not to mention, I have met some individuals in my life who would likely cause less harm to themselves and others had an LLM thought on their behalf (I'm kidding, of course).
- AuthAuth 5mo ago
  If we run with your theory that the human mind adapts and thinking becomes less valuable that should be setting off alarmbells. What kind of world would be one where thinking is not considered a valuable skill. If I thought that was true I would be in favour of restricting AI use to certain workflows.
- bccdee 5mo ago
  > such an uncomfortable idea violates any principles of evolution. Evolution isn't a normative thing. It's perfectly possible for us to evolve into something that morally shouldn't exist, especially in an artificial environment.