4 ms·

Again: How can it be turned on, when it is actively decommissioned ("Rückbau") since 2024? What are the costs (without omitting storing radiactive waste secure

by ndr42 6mo ago

Again: How can it be turned on, when it is actively decommissioned ("Rückbau") since 2024? What are the costs (without omitting storing radiactive waste securely[1] above ground for some thousand years ? Are they less than batteries + solar + wind? [1] think terrorism, drone strikes, ...

Moldoteck 6mo ago
Terrorism and drone strikes are irrelevant. Casks can withstand train/rocket impacts. It can be turned on by pursuing refurbs like Darlington in Canada which would be closest conceptually since a lot of stuff got replaced there. Refurbs would be cheap vs building anything new providing same TWh/year. Germany needs much more than just batteries. It needs gas firming on top (coming from Habeck, Fraunhofer and now Reiche)
- ndr42 6mo ago
  Maybe we have a slightly different understanding what it means if the gp says "it could absolutly be turned back on". I certainly wouldn't have expected that someone would propose to shop around for refurbished parts (including to try to get permission to create a german-canadian-chimera-npp).
  - Moldoteck 6mo ago
    For me "it could absolutly be turned back on" is tied to "if refurb is done for affected components" I'm sure Framatome will be more than happy to help with manufacturing of necessary parts. Great carenage is already undergoing in France which helped in this regard but Framatome is involved in manufacturing for other suppliers too
- ndr42 6mo ago
  Dozens of above ground areas need to be secured for thousand of years. Great if there would be no way for terrorists to get into just one of these facilities in this timeframe and get their hands on radioactive material to build a dirty bomb. Great if this would be cheaper than just build solar, wind and batteries without the liability of radioactive waste.
  - Moldoteck 6mo ago
    "Dozens of above ground areas need to be secured for thousand of years." - why? Do you think for terrorists it'll be easy to dig a 500m deep hole to reach Onkalo's sealed facility? Instead of creating some chemical agents that can do vastly more damage for much cheaper? For real some of you live in a fantasy world. Nor you seem to be concerned about facilities like Herfa Neurode in this regard.
    - ndr42 6mo ago
      "Dozens of above ground areas need to be secured for thousand of years." - why? Well, you were replying to a reply of me to panick21 where he said: Nuclear 'waste' doesn't need a repository, its perfectly fine to just store it above ground for as long as needed. So I suggested that there could be a problem with terrorism when there are a lot of decentral storage sites above ground. To which you said it would be irrelevant. If there are easy and cheap longtime-solutions to the radioactive waste problem - fine with me. In Germany we certainly don't have them at the moment. I think it will be easier and cheaper to avoid this kind of waste altogether and use batteries, wind and solar.
      - Moldoteck 6mo ago
        You can store it on site for as long as the site is operational which means(if you allow extensions/relicensing) about 80-100y. Afterwards you need a repository similar to Herfa Neurode or Onkalo. The cheapest way in Germany would be either to allow storing in Herfa Neurode or to send waste to la Hague for recycling, sell the recycled part and isolate only the leftovers. Renewables don't isolate you from this problem. Germany still needs a repository for medical and research waste. Germany also needs repositories for toxic chemicals (arsenic, cadmium, lead- byproducts of various industries including renewables) Even more, Germany can't get by with solar+wind+bess alone. Fraunhofer ISE recommends massive gas expansion to 80+GW to firm renewables. I'd rather see any fossils infrastructure erased from existence. France doesn't need a parallel fossils firming grid. Nor Sweden.
        6mo ago

by ndr42 6mo ago

Moldoteck 6mo ago

Terrorism and drone strikes are irrelevant. Casks can withstand train/rocket impacts. It can be turned on by pursuing refurbs like Darlington in Canada which would be closest conceptually since a lot of stuff got replaced there. Refurbs would be cheap vs building anything new providing same TWh/year. Germany needs much more than just batteries. It needs gas firming on top (coming from Habeck, Fraunhofer and now Reiche)

ndr42 6mo ago
Maybe we have a slightly different understanding what it means if the gp says "it could absolutly be turned back on". I certainly wouldn't have expected that someone would propose to shop around for refurbished parts (including to try to get permission to create a german-canadian-chimera-npp).
- Moldoteck 6mo ago
  For me "it could absolutly be turned back on" is tied to "if refurb is done for affected components" I'm sure Framatome will be more than happy to help with manufacturing of necessary parts. Great carenage is already undergoing in France which helped in this regard but Framatome is involved in manufacturing for other suppliers too
ndr42 6mo ago
Dozens of above ground areas need to be secured for thousand of years. Great if there would be no way for terrorists to get into just one of these facilities in this timeframe and get their hands on radioactive material to build a dirty bomb. Great if this would be cheaper than just build solar, wind and batteries without the liability of radioactive waste.
- Moldoteck 6mo ago
  "Dozens of above ground areas need to be secured for thousand of years." - why? Do you think for terrorists it'll be easy to dig a 500m deep hole to reach Onkalo's sealed facility? Instead of creating some chemical agents that can do vastly more damage for much cheaper? For real some of you live in a fantasy world. Nor you seem to be concerned about facilities like Herfa Neurode in this regard.
  - ndr42 6mo ago
    "Dozens of above ground areas need to be secured for thousand of years." - why? Well, you were replying to a reply of me to panick21 where he said: Nuclear 'waste' doesn't need a repository, its perfectly fine to just store it above ground for as long as needed. So I suggested that there could be a problem with terrorism when there are a lot of decentral storage sites above ground. To which you said it would be irrelevant. If there are easy and cheap longtime-solutions to the radioactive waste problem - fine with me. In Germany we certainly don't have them at the moment. I think it will be easier and cheaper to avoid this kind of waste altogether and use batteries, wind and solar.
    - Moldoteck 6mo ago
      You can store it on site for as long as the site is operational which means(if you allow extensions/relicensing) about 80-100y. Afterwards you need a repository similar to Herfa Neurode or Onkalo. The cheapest way in Germany would be either to allow storing in Herfa Neurode or to send waste to la Hague for recycling, sell the recycled part and isolate only the leftovers. Renewables don't isolate you from this problem. Germany still needs a repository for medical and research waste. Germany also needs repositories for toxic chemicals (arsenic, cadmium, lead- byproducts of various industries including renewables) Even more, Germany can't get by with solar+wind+bess alone. Fraunhofer ISE recommends massive gas expansion to 80+GW to firm renewables. I'd rather see any fossils infrastructure erased from existence. France doesn't need a parallel fossils firming grid. Nor Sweden.
      - 6mo ago