4 ms·

No new trial for Sam Bankman-Fried

25 points by wslh 6mo ago

wslh 6mo ago
The most revealing detail is the PR plan. It shows the machinery behind the public persona: legal strategy, media appearances, ideological repositioning, and "radical honesty" all treated as narrative management. It matters because it helps people see how public reality gets shaped, not just reported.
- zonezero 6mo ago
  My take away was that he actually made everyone a boat load of money. It appeared as though it was his lack of rigor and discipline (keeping books properly) which did him in, not dishonesty. In the end, I had the impression there was a witch hunt for cons when the crypto market dipped. Is that not how it was? I didn’t follow too closely and I’m not a fan or anything. It only seemed like he was an idealist born of privilege on cloud nine without appropriate formal training in finance.
  - Terr_ 6mo ago
    Oh no, he's found HN! :p > It appeared as though it was his lack of rigor and discipline (keeping books properly) which did him in, not dishonesty "Gosh, how was I supposed to know it was wrong to lie and secretly 'borrow' other people's money without permission for my own gambles at the casino over and over!? I was going to put it back eventually, when I finally won enough back. It's society's fault for not ensuring I was properly educated in these extremely fine points of post-graduate human behavior." I can't imagine accepting that from, say, a random manager of a gas-station convenience store, let alone someone with Bankman-Fried's wealth and advantages in life and a full-time job in fancy finance. I'm sure Bankman-Fried also make a ton of "technical" breaches... But mostly in the same way a bank-robber also has an improperly licensed firearm and a double-parked getaway vehicle with old license-plates. They are not so much "mistakes" at that point as details of how the Big Crime was committed. > he actually made everyone a boat load of money. Like Bernie Madoff did? No, lots and lots of people lost money, and—in order to disguise it for a while—he ensured a much smaller number of people got some of the dwindling pile.
    - davyAdewoyin 6mo ago
      Don't forget he also had parents who were experts in law. If there is anyone who knows the illegality of what he was doing, it's definitely him.
      - nytesky 6mo ago
        Not just “experts”. Legal ETHICS professors at Stanford.
  - seanhunter 6mo ago
    That is not at all how it was and this is strangely similar to the (also untrue) astroturf narrative that got repeated about Martin Shkreli after he got imprisoned for fraud. FTX users lost money to Alameda by Alameda being able to trade without collateral. He literally stole money from users of his exchange by allowing this. It absolutely is not lack of rigor and discipline - He was dishonest about it.
    - pdpi 6mo ago
      > It absolutely is not lack of rigor and discipline - He was dishonest about it. In a way, it's weaponised lack of rigour and discipline, which is the absolute easiest form of dishonesty to justify to yourself.
  - _menelaus 6mo ago
    Isn't it the opposite? He gambled with other people's money and lost big. This is criminal because he won, he kept everything, if he failed, everyone else loses.
    - ohnei 6mo ago
      We really have no evidence that if he accidentally had a few extra billion he wouldn't have done the right thing and reported his crimes so he could divide the proceeds with people he illegally borrowed money from, though clearly not immediately first he would need to wait for it to come back from loans to his associates where he would have had to augment the bellow market interest rates with money he saved from his childhood allowance.
  - ekjhgkejhgk 6mo ago
    > My take away was that he actually made everyone a boat load of money. What point are you trying to make? Should he not be prosecuted for fraud as long as a lot of people benefited, is that what you're suggesting?
    - zonezero 6mo ago
      Why was it fraud and simply not irresponsibility? I’m really shocked that simply asking the question was so vehemently down voted. Can’t even ask? Gosh everyone, sounds like a witch hunt. Like that guy who compared to a gas station or something. Really? You all must not know money or investments. I don’t either but I lived in NY and know those crazy guys who make money can be a bit eccentric. People give them money because they know the game. If they make money in the end, like I’m pretty sure when all was said and done and the crypto market corrected, he was almost 500 million over expectations, not under! I could be wrong, it’s a moving target and it’s hard to validate today. It only sounded like he didn’t “follow all the rules” which is different than fraudulent intentions. Just my wondering dudes!
      - ekjhgkejhgk 6mo ago
        > Why was it fraud and simply not irresponsibility? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Are you saying that you don't know the difference between the english words "fraud" and "irresponsibility"? OR are you asking why one applies to this case but not the other?
- shimman 6mo ago
  We must always remember that the rich + elites do not care how we are. They do not care if we're fed, they do not care if we get adequate medical care, or find love or start families. The only thing the rich cares about is what we think of them, they will spend 100s of millions to make sure people positively of them. It is absolutely sociopathic behavior.
  - pixel_popping 6mo ago
    A lot of poor people (many sociopaths as well) on social media also behave that way by forging a fake image about themselves.
    - shimman 6mo ago
      Yeah, I forgot all those poor people that own social media companies, news outlets, and transnational corporations; truly the shapers of society are the meek and not billionaires, man I was fooled hard.
      - pixel_popping 6mo ago
        The point is that rich or poor, people spend time/money on faking their image.
        shimman 6mo ago
        Yeah but only one is destroying democracy and embracing fascism.
goofy_lemur 6mo ago
[flagged]
- archagon 6mo ago
  [flagged]
- tim333 6mo ago
  Locking people up for stealing millions is pretty standard and a lot of normal people support it. Would you like people to steal your money / property without punishment?
tim333 6mo ago
>essentially no realistic avenues left to avoid his 25-year prison sentence Couldn't he bribe the Trumps?
- cyanydeez 6mo ago
  There's always grift in the grift economy

25 points by wslh 6mo ago

wslh 6mo ago

The most revealing detail is the PR plan. It shows the machinery behind the public persona: legal strategy, media appearances, ideological repositioning, and "radical honesty" all treated as narrative management. It matters because it helps people see how public reality gets shaped, not just reported.

zonezero 6mo ago
My take away was that he actually made everyone a boat load of money. It appeared as though it was his lack of rigor and discipline (keeping books properly) which did him in, not dishonesty. In the end, I had the impression there was a witch hunt for cons when the crypto market dipped. Is that not how it was? I didn’t follow too closely and I’m not a fan or anything. It only seemed like he was an idealist born of privilege on cloud nine without appropriate formal training in finance.
- Terr_ 6mo ago
  Oh no, he's found HN! :p > It appeared as though it was his lack of rigor and discipline (keeping books properly) which did him in, not dishonesty "Gosh, how was I supposed to know it was wrong to lie and secretly 'borrow' other people's money without permission for my own gambles at the casino over and over!? I was going to put it back eventually, when I finally won enough back. It's society's fault for not ensuring I was properly educated in these extremely fine points of post-graduate human behavior." I can't imagine accepting that from, say, a random manager of a gas-station convenience store, let alone someone with Bankman-Fried's wealth and advantages in life and a full-time job in fancy finance. I'm sure Bankman-Fried also make a ton of "technical" breaches... But mostly in the same way a bank-robber also has an improperly licensed firearm and a double-parked getaway vehicle with old license-plates. They are not so much "mistakes" at that point as details of how the Big Crime was committed. > he actually made everyone a boat load of money. Like Bernie Madoff did? No, lots and lots of people lost money, and—in order to disguise it for a while—he ensured a much smaller number of people got some of the dwindling pile.
  - davyAdewoyin 6mo ago
    Don't forget he also had parents who were experts in law. If there is anyone who knows the illegality of what he was doing, it's definitely him.
    - nytesky 6mo ago
      Not just “experts”. Legal ETHICS professors at Stanford.
- seanhunter 6mo ago
  That is not at all how it was and this is strangely similar to the (also untrue) astroturf narrative that got repeated about Martin Shkreli after he got imprisoned for fraud. FTX users lost money to Alameda by Alameda being able to trade without collateral. He literally stole money from users of his exchange by allowing this. It absolutely is not lack of rigor and discipline - He was dishonest about it.
  - pdpi 6mo ago
    > It absolutely is not lack of rigor and discipline - He was dishonest about it. In a way, it's weaponised lack of rigour and discipline, which is the absolute easiest form of dishonesty to justify to yourself.
- _menelaus 6mo ago
  Isn't it the opposite? He gambled with other people's money and lost big. This is criminal because he won, he kept everything, if he failed, everyone else loses.
  - ohnei 6mo ago
    We really have no evidence that if he accidentally had a few extra billion he wouldn't have done the right thing and reported his crimes so he could divide the proceeds with people he illegally borrowed money from, though clearly not immediately first he would need to wait for it to come back from loans to his associates where he would have had to augment the bellow market interest rates with money he saved from his childhood allowance.
- ekjhgkejhgk 6mo ago
  > My take away was that he actually made everyone a boat load of money. What point are you trying to make? Should he not be prosecuted for fraud as long as a lot of people benefited, is that what you're suggesting?
  - zonezero 6mo ago
    Why was it fraud and simply not irresponsibility? I’m really shocked that simply asking the question was so vehemently down voted. Can’t even ask? Gosh everyone, sounds like a witch hunt. Like that guy who compared to a gas station or something. Really? You all must not know money or investments. I don’t either but I lived in NY and know those crazy guys who make money can be a bit eccentric. People give them money because they know the game. If they make money in the end, like I’m pretty sure when all was said and done and the crypto market corrected, he was almost 500 million over expectations, not under! I could be wrong, it’s a moving target and it’s hard to validate today. It only sounded like he didn’t “follow all the rules” which is different than fraudulent intentions. Just my wondering dudes!
    - ekjhgkejhgk 6mo ago
      > Why was it fraud and simply not irresponsibility? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Are you saying that you don't know the difference between the english words "fraud" and "irresponsibility"? OR are you asking why one applies to this case but not the other?
shimman 6mo ago
We must always remember that the rich + elites do not care how we are. They do not care if we're fed, they do not care if we get adequate medical care, or find love or start families. The only thing the rich cares about is what we think of them, they will spend 100s of millions to make sure people positively of them. It is absolutely sociopathic behavior.
- pixel_popping 6mo ago
  A lot of poor people (many sociopaths as well) on social media also behave that way by forging a fake image about themselves.
  - shimman 6mo ago
    Yeah, I forgot all those poor people that own social media companies, news outlets, and transnational corporations; truly the shapers of society are the meek and not billionaires, man I was fooled hard.
    - pixel_popping 6mo ago
      The point is that rich or poor, people spend time/money on faking their image.
      - shimman 6mo ago
        Yeah but only one is destroying democracy and embracing fascism.

goofy_lemur 6mo ago

[flagged]

archagon 6mo ago
[flagged]
tim333 6mo ago
Locking people up for stealing millions is pretty standard and a lot of normal people support it. Would you like people to steal your money / property without punishment?

tim333 6mo ago

>essentially no realistic avenues left to avoid his 25-year prison sentence Couldn't he bribe the Trumps?

cyanydeez 6mo ago
There's always grift in the grift economy