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On Mastodon, if you take the wrong side, those on the correct side will defederate from you. Not merely because you host (or don't host) the content they like (

On Mastodon, if you take the wrong side, those on the correct side will defederate from you. Not merely because you host (or don't host) the content they like (or dislike), but because you merely enable (or discriminate against) those who host that content. Of course, all sides are wrong in somebody's eyes; so no matter what you do, you will be defederated from by at least somebody. The way Mastodon works, defederation irreversibly breaks all follow relationships, without notifying those involved. If you disagree with the decision, you can migrate to another server, but you won't get your followers / followees back, not without everybody involved doing a lot of manual drudge work. This is just one way in which the myth of "users are free to do what they wish, if they disagree with the admins, they can migrate somewhere else" breaks. To make matters worse, there's no way to see which users that you may wish to follow are / will be hidden from you if you choose a given instance. Defederation lists are a (somewhat open) secret; it's good practice to announce defederations, but there's no automated API endpoint to see them, so there's no way to answer the question of "who am I going to lose if I migrate from x to y."

embedding-shape 6mo ago
> On Mastodon, if you take the wrong side, those on the correct side will defederate from you. Not merely because you host (or don't host) the content they like (or dislike), but because you merely enable (or discriminate against) those who host that content. Ok, so? People block you all the time because they don't agree with you, why is that a problem? If people don't want to hear what you say, shouldn't they be allowed to not listen? Personally, I don't understand that point of view of blocking people who you disagree with, for me the point of the internet is to find different views and perspectives, but I'm also fine with others filtering out whatever I say, doesn't really impact me either way. If you want no rules what you say, run your own instance. Depending on what you say, some people will want to listen, others will want to filter your opinion away, I don't think either sides are "wrong" for that, it's just like in real life. If you want to use someone else's instance, you follow their rules. It mostly isn't harder than this.
- miki123211 6mo ago
  No, because this happens on a per-admin level, not on a per-user level. You go on a cruise for two weeks and there's a disagreement about whether to federate with Meta or not. Your admin takes a side, whatever that side might be. Two weeks later, you come back and lose 10% of followers, and there's nothing you can do about it.
  - embedding-shape 6mo ago
    Yeah, that kind of makes sense to me, you chose that instance because you're OK with that admin making choices for you. Just like how I choose to post comments on HN, and if the admins/moderators tell me to stop something, or that now half my comments are gone for reason X, I can't really cry about it, all I can do is follow what admins do/say or jump ship.
    - Terr_ 6mo ago
      So... basically the bad problem everybody was intending to solve in the first place?
      - embedding-shape 6mo ago
        As far as I know, Mastodon didn't really set out to solve that particular problem. But it does seem like ATProto did, as it seems a lot easier to move around in ATProto than Mastodon (and ActivityPub in general).
        tardedmeme 6mo ago
        Yep. Changing servers is easy. You just have to update the central PLC registry run by Blue Sky LLC to say which server you're hosted on now. ... wait a minute.
        embedding-shape 6mo ago
        You're complaining that moving away from a PDS means you have to let that PDS know you're moving away? Do you understand what you're actually complaining about, or I the one who misunderstand what you're complaining about? In case you haven't read them before, the docs for migrating are here: https://atproto.com/guides/account-migration https://atproto.com/guides/account-migration
fc417fc802 6mo ago
> there's no way to answer the question of "who am I going to lose if I migrate from x to y." Ahckchually, once you create an account you can use the API endpoint for remote lookup to test in an automated manner which nodes are and aren't reachable.

embedding-shape 6mo ago

> On Mastodon, if you take the wrong side, those on the correct side will defederate from you. Not merely because you host (or don't host) the content they like (or dislike), but because you merely enable (or discriminate against) those who host that content. Ok, so? People block you all the time because they don't agree with you, why is that a problem? If people don't want to hear what you say, shouldn't they be allowed to not listen? Personally, I don't understand that point of view of blocking people who you disagree with, for me the point of the internet is to find different views and perspectives, but I'm also fine with others filtering out whatever I say, doesn't really impact me either way. If you want no rules what you say, run your own instance. Depending on what you say, some people will want to listen, others will want to filter your opinion away, I don't think either sides are "wrong" for that, it's just like in real life. If you want to use someone else's instance, you follow their rules. It mostly isn't harder than this.

miki123211 6mo ago
No, because this happens on a per-admin level, not on a per-user level. You go on a cruise for two weeks and there's a disagreement about whether to federate with Meta or not. Your admin takes a side, whatever that side might be. Two weeks later, you come back and lose 10% of followers, and there's nothing you can do about it.
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Yeah, that kind of makes sense to me, you chose that instance because you're OK with that admin making choices for you. Just like how I choose to post comments on HN, and if the admins/moderators tell me to stop something, or that now half my comments are gone for reason X, I can't really cry about it, all I can do is follow what admins do/say or jump ship.
  - Terr_ 6mo ago
    So... basically the bad problem everybody was intending to solve in the first place?
    - embedding-shape 6mo ago
      As far as I know, Mastodon didn't really set out to solve that particular problem. But it does seem like ATProto did, as it seems a lot easier to move around in ATProto than Mastodon (and ActivityPub in general).
      - tardedmeme 6mo ago
        Yep. Changing servers is easy. You just have to update the central PLC registry run by Blue Sky LLC to say which server you're hosted on now. ... wait a minute.
        embedding-shape 6mo ago
        You're complaining that moving away from a PDS means you have to let that PDS know you're moving away? Do you understand what you're actually complaining about, or I the one who misunderstand what you're complaining about? In case you haven't read them before, the docs for migrating are here: https://atproto.com/guides/account-migration https://atproto.com/guides/account-migration

fc417fc802 6mo ago

> there's no way to answer the question of "who am I going to lose if I migrate from x to y." Ahckchually, once you create an account you can use the API endpoint for remote lookup to test in an automated manner which nodes are and aren't reachable.