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Germany Overtakes US in Ammunition Production Capacity
- metalman 6mo agoGerman Engineering, loosing two world wars and counting.
- ragebol 6mo agoIt's still baffling to see the US lose so much face in so short a time. There is definitely truth that Europe has relied on US defense for too long, but what the US got in return is hard to put into words and economic terms. We bought your tech, culture, defense and so much other stuff. This rift won't close anytime soon
- pfdietz 6mo agoThe US is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss. These are all just foreshocks.
- ignoramous 6mo ago> The US is teetering on the edge of a financial abyss. Do you say this because of the outstanding debt? Otherwise, just their top 10 publicly traded companies earn more than all but 2 countries. Just the US defense budget ($1T and estimated $1.5T next year), which exports US foreign policy globally, absolutely dwarfs every other country's.
- khriss 6mo agoDebt, rather the lack of any via ble means for the US to pay back even a fraction of its debt without having the world's reserve currency. Yes, theoretically they can always print their way out, but that's just default through inflation and bond yields will correct immediately to account for it.
- pfdietz 6mo agoIt's the outcome I expect. It's probably the outcome the US politicians expect, too.
- Frieren 6mo ago> just their top 10 publicly traded companies earn more than all but 2 countries Are not European countries trying to reduce dependency on American tech giants? China was very successful in this regard. Russia is also independent but in the most incompetent way possible. The EU could do it quite well. The USA is not a reliable partner. To send data to the USA from the EU is a fatal mistake that needs to be corrected. The risk was acceptable in the past, but not anymore. The USA comes from a very privileged position thanks to many factors. The government is making sure that non of the conditions hold anymore.
- yesbut 6mo agorelevant Norm Macdonald https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtafGdIVM
- trick-or-treat 6mo agoI don't know how many of you are history buffs...
- RobotToaster 6mo ago>that had never been tried before Napoleon would like a word.
- samrus 6mo ago[flagged]
- hagbard_c 6mo ago> I dont respect trump at all but... You don't need to add this, just say that you agree with him on that point. If the mob comes down on you for agreeing with the devil you can counter that you agree with facts, not based on who happens to voice them.
- mog_dev 6mo agoThe US did not "pick up" Europe's defense bill out of charity. It ran a garrison empire because forward bases served American interests: containing Russia, projecting power, locking allies into US weapons. European welfare states are funded by European taxes, not Pentagon largesse. Defense is nowhere the "largest expense" of any developed country, pensions and healthcare are. Europe rearming is overdue, but the right framing is strategic autonomy from an unreliable partner, not a wayward teenager finally paying rent.
- arlort 6mo ago> the right framing is strategic autonomy from an unreliable partner Yes but that's an uncomfortable framing for online-americans to use when they want some gotcha argument And not a useful one for US administrations in the last 30 years (trump was far from the first one) to make because the (mostly) unstated assumption was that the vast majority of increased spending would go to american manufacturers to prop up american jobs
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- GJim 6mo agoThe "Because America pays for Europe's defence, is how Europeans can afford holidays and free healthcare" is classic Russian propaganda. Frankly, it doesn't pass the sniff test and its bizarre to see some (educated!) American HN readers falling for it.
- dbg31415 6mo agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j20voPS0gI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j20voPS0gI Once all the Germans were warlike and mean, But that couldn't happen again. We taught them a lesson in 1918 And they've hardly bothered us since then.
- eru 6mo agoNah, it's mostly the Prussians. Those Bavarians and Austrians and other southerns are too jolly.
- wolfi1 6mo agoyou certainly don't know how belligerent the Hapsburgs were
- preisschild 6mo agoFun Fact, a Habsburg was even blamed for the dissolution of the German Democratic Republic > After his fall, Honecker said of Otto von Habsburg in relation to the summer of 1989, "this Habsburg drove the nail into my coffin." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-European_Picnic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-European_Picnic
- eru 6mo agoWeirdly enough, Honecker was unrepentant until his death. They didn't put him on trial in the unified Germany, because the law in Germany is intentionally soft towards the terminally ill.
- eru 6mo agoWeren't they supposed to marry, not war?
- wolfi1 6mo agothat's just a myth, there even is a black book on them (in German). one of the many examples is the Magnate Conspiracy, from WP: "Petar Zrinski and Fran Krsto Frankopan (Francesco Cristoforo Frangipani) were ordered to the Emperor's Court. The note said that, as they had ceased their rebellion and had repented soon enough, they would be given mercy from the Emperor if they would plead for it. They were arrested the moment they arrived in Vienna, and put on trial. They were held in Wiener Neustadt and beheaded on April 30, 1671."
- fabian2k 6mo ago> But the U.S. has made it clear that it wants to concentrate on the Indo-Pacific and the threat posed by China's powerful military, rather than propping up Europe. If that were true they wouldn't have wasted enormous amounts of expensive ammunition in Iran.
- nolok 6mo agoOne, I feel like the "propping up Europe" is preposterous when europe is buying those things, not getting them for free, just like american weapon delivery to Ukraine have been paid by europe and not free for a long while now. Two, the US wasting of ammunition in an ill-prepared fight against Iran that has not produced any of the result they claim to want but managed to make things instable for a lot of the world has nothing to do with helping Europe.
- kakacik 6mo agoUkraine soldiers had some comments on US military guidelines for use of patriots that they saw in this war - incredibly wasteful, where up to 10-15 rockets are used per 1 incoming shahed. They just set the system in automatic mode, let it select targets and fire at its will, and run for the bunker. Ukrainians, having very little of those (or nothing now), used 1 patriot missile per 1 boogey with little drop in effectiveness, and whole crew remained in and guided it manually. According to them system is built to be wasteful to increase those interception numbers marginally, but for anything but short exchange its a very bad design mistake that can be easily overwhelmed or depleted, as seen trivially exploitable by enemy.
- serallak 6mo agoUkraine government also issued a statement saying that the US forces used 800 Patriot interceptors against Iran in three days at the start of the current war. While Ukraine used just 600 interceptors in 4 years of war.
- XorNot 6mo agoEvery year for like the last decade I've heard "pivot to China" proceeded by the US using its various European bases to attack something in the Middle East.
- spwa4 6mo agoThe problem with this, historically is that the way Europe's geography works, a number of countries are just not going to fairly share in the burden of defending Europe, while other countries have the ability to tax foreign trade. Ireland is famous for this, and looking at a map, you can see why. Spain, Turkey and Denmark have historically taxed foreign trade. Additionally a number of countries have "unfair" advantages over others. There are 2 straits that control access to the oceans. Which means Denmark and Norway control free trade routes (land routes are not "free" as in they are taxed) into Germany, Sweden, Finland, the Baltics, and of course Russia. This can't be fixed, and the UK effectively occupies Gibraltar to prevent it. Spain (I'd say Spain and Morocco, but really ... Spain) controls sea access for all Mediterranean countries, from Italy to Georgia, Algeria to Greece. France (and Morocco) being the major exceptions to this. This can't be fixed, and is currently blocked by what is effectively an international force. Spain is not happy with this. Turkey controls (and intends to tax) trade routes into all the black sea countries, which is most of Eastern Europe. Oh and UK and the Netherlands, for reasons that are slightly less obvious, control free trade into Belgium. In addition to this, most countries do not have the resources they need. Not even to survive. And even most countries that could be self-sufficient, aren't (cough Germany, really, WHY????). Really only France is somewhat close to self-sufficient. Specialization, on a country level, is a necessity in Europe, most countries do not have access to free trade routes and are utterly dependent on trade, in other words: they have to pay to survive. Essentially the situation is simple: all European countries, except France. Spain, UK and Portugal (and, yes, Ireland) COULD get themselves into a secure position, but haven't (and so if it came to it, it would be very hard to do in a short time). All other countries probably can't do it at all. So all these countries have good reason to attack each other. So the question with getting Europe's armies weapons is: the natural situation is that they'll try to destabilize Europe rather than stabilize it, because that is in most countries' direct economic interest. Historically, they ... you can say Europe was more peaceful than places like the areas of the ottoman empire, for example. But that should not be confused with peaceful in an absolute sense. In fact, the last 80 years or so have been remarkably peaceful, with America guaranteeing access to international trade. Well, I'm sure Russia would counter "guarantee access? You mean control access", and yes, that's been done. Unfortunately it's very clear that America's power, especially measured relative to other countries, is waning. Meaning America is still far more powerful than, say, Turkey. But it used to be easily 100x more powerful. Now ... it looks more like 10x. Opposing Turkey will be a huge effort for the US, far more than the Iran war will be. US's deal, the Pax Americana, was that America would simply guarantee free trade routes with it's military for everyone, in fact, that's what the Iran war is really about (free trade for everyone behind Hormuz). In exchange, US gets the dollar. Many nations, most obviously Iran, but Turkey, Indonesia, China, Somalia, ... have all taken steps to tax the trade routes they control, which will over time create an untenable trade situation for a very large number of countries. The situation for Germany in the long term is a simple choice: they can either pay, or attack. We all know what their historical choice has been, as soon as you have a somewhat prolonged economic crisis. Germany is not alone in this, in fact all of Eastern Europe is more or less in the same situation. A decent chunk of those countries are arming themselves (for example, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, and Finland have all given hints they're building a nuclear force) The problem with America weakening is that the US wants free trade, because that directly benefits the US greatly, whereas most other factions want to control trade instead. Turkey, Iran, China, Indonesia, even Spain's current government if we're honest and others want to (go back to) taxing other countries. Historically they have succeeded at this, but it resulted in constant wars.
- renewiltord 6mo ago[flagged]
- fabian2k 6mo ago[flagged]
- renewiltord 6mo ago[flagged]
- laughing_man 6mo ago[flagged]
- piva00 6mo ago[flagged]
- laughing_man 6mo ago[flagged]
- lostlogin 6mo agoAnother serious question: if this attack was so desperately needed, why did it take Israel to push America into it? It’s almost like it didn’t need to happen. And if we step further back, relation with Iran are troubled, why would that be?
- laughing_man 6mo agoIt's more like a nuclear armed Iran is an existential threat to Israel, while the threat to the US is longer term.
- traderj0e 6mo ago
- sajithdilshan 6mo agoThis feels like the 1920s all over again. Germany is riddled with structural and economic failures, yet instead of addressing them, politicians are pivoting toward a war footing. The economy has been trapped in a cycle of recession and stagnation since the pandemic, but the current political response is to debate cuts to social benefits and tax increases. This is compounded by a self-inflicted energy crisis, shutting down every nuclear power plant has destabilized the energy market for the rest of Europe. Meanwhile, the AfD is polling at nearly 30% nationwide. History may not repeat itself, but it is definitely rhyming.
- lostlogin 6mo agoIf we’re comparing Nazis, can we include both sides of the Atlantic?
- sajithdilshan 6mo agoI wasn't comparing Nazis but the reality. Maybe that's your narrative
- lostlogin 6mo agoI thought you were comping 1930s politics to current events. I’m saying that your comment broadly works when you compare current US politics to 1930s German politics (nuclear policy aside).
- sajithdilshan 6mo agoI think you need to go back to school and learn history before labeling everything which goes against your belief as Fascism. What happened in 1930s Germany is absolutely not what is happening in US right now. US is still a democracy whether you like it or not.
- lostlogin 6mo ago> US is still a democracy whether you like it or not. It’s not a Boolean, it happens gradually, but it’s accelerating. I’m glad you think everything is fine, let’s hope you’re right.
- m000 6mo ago[flagged]
- general1465 6mo agoRussia would conquer Eastern Europe and reestablish Eastern Block and USSR if they would not be stuck in Ukraine. It is not even a secret, Putin himself stated those goals. He does not want some part of Donbas of whatever, he wants WHOLE Ukraine all the way to Uzhghorod. https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/12/21/us-intelligence-putin-still-seeks-full-conquest-of-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2025/12/21/us-intelligence-putin-...
- m000 6mo ago> Russia would conquer Eastern Europe and reestablish Eastern Block and USSR This is BS regurgitated by people that can't let go of the cold war, because their self-importance is tied to the era. Anyone with half-brain can see that USSR had the various CPs as means of establishing and maintaining control over other countries. Russia does not have any equivalent apparatus. Relying on military power alone, they can't reach much further than their backyard. And Putin is smart enough to understand this (unlike Trump). > Putin himself stated those goals Says an article titled with "US Intelligence:", based on Russia's refusal to concede territory in a war they may not be outright winning, but they're definitely not losing.
- general1465 6mo ago> This is BS regurgitated by people that can't let go of the cold war No this is actual reality and Russia has stated that it want to renew USSR. Or why do you think they would want NATO to move behind 1997 borders? Yep whole former Eastern block is there. Ukraine was supposed to be 1968 Czechoslovakia not 10x Afghanistan. If conquest of Ukraine would go well, next would be Moldavia, then Baltic states. All used to be part of USSR. To me it is really funny that people like you exists. Putting flaps on your eyes and refusing to see that an aggressive empire is actively conquering its neighbours like it is 1850 again.
- tim333 6mo ago>European countries are rushing to refill military stockpiles after U.S. President Donald Trump last year warned NATO members that they needed to spend more on defense and rely less on the U.S. I don't think that's the main reason. It's more the impression that the US can't be relied on to defend against Russia, especially after the oval office meeting where they went on about Zelensky not saying thank you. I got stuck in a crowd on the pavement for twenty minutes after that because all the European heads and Zelensky flew into London for an emergency meeting to discuss the "oh shit the US is no longer going to defend against Russia" issue and they decided to ramp up our own defense and support for Ukraine. It was a worrying situation because if Ukraine were to fall, Putin would then probably round them all up into the Russian army and look at attacking EU territory like the baltics leading to an EU/NATO vs Russia war. Hence the arms. Discussion at the time - meeting https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43208973 5349 comments US Ends Support For Ukrainian F-16s https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43307996 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43307996 2313 comments