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the way in which Mantle was built is highlighted internally by PEs as some sort of triumph but really its a fairly tone deaf indicted of AWS’s engineering cultu

the way in which Mantle was built is highlighted internally by PEs as some sort of triumph but really its a fairly tone deaf indicted of AWS’s engineering culture ... “To achieve a meaningful result in a reasonable amount of time we had to break nearly ever constraint that we force all other engineers to work under. good luck to you plebs of L6 and below”

spelunker 5mo ago
Check out this all of this stuff we can build with a room full of PEs and no rules!
darkwater 5mo ago
I'm going to play devil's advocate here: _what if_ most of lower level engineers are actually not able to self-organize themselves like this dedicated, I bet hand-picked group of PE can? I'm pretty sure AWS ruthless culture would gladly use less middle-managers and be swifter in time to market if it were so easy, no? What works for a single, highly-focused project (or a handful of similar situations) doesn't scale when you have to take care of bazillion customers, do boring/smaller tasks and keep the machine ticking.
- jjmarr 5mo ago
  [deleted]
  - 3748595995 5mo ago
    [flagged]
- coredog64 5mo ago
  Having seen how the sausage is made, Amazon's internal engineering culture is a textbook example of the principal/agent problem. You only get a raise from a promo, and you only get a promo from scope. It's way easier for management to demonstrate scope and so those folks build out empires of crap. In the best case they're just consuming oxygen, but I have definitely seen orgs created that were a negative influence on productivity.
  - darkwater 5mo ago
    Never worked for BigTech, so I'mm really not in my territory, but I wonder what is the purpose of all those interviews to get "the best of the best" and then let these things happen. What are the incentives for the management layer?
    - 33MHz-i486 5mo ago
      probably the main thing is just having low-level engineers competent enough to run operations on the dozens of poorly maintained 50k LoC codebases per team, hundreds of bespoke internal dependencies, processes, and custom tooling. build ecosystems of 5+ languages. secondarily its an industrialization of software development. the hiring process is where they try define the labor as a replaceable component. grab the best cogs you can annually for the lowest price, run them in the machine for 2-4 years and swap most of them out before they get too expensive, or specialized or uppity.

spelunker 5mo ago

Check out this all of this stuff we can build with a room full of PEs and no rules!

darkwater 5mo ago

I'm going to play devil's advocate here: _what if_ most of lower level engineers are actually not able to self-organize themselves like this dedicated, I bet hand-picked group of PE can? I'm pretty sure AWS ruthless culture would gladly use less middle-managers and be swifter in time to market if it were so easy, no? What works for a single, highly-focused project (or a handful of similar situations) doesn't scale when you have to take care of bazillion customers, do boring/smaller tasks and keep the machine ticking.

jjmarr 5mo ago
[deleted]
- 3748595995 5mo ago
  [flagged]
coredog64 5mo ago
Having seen how the sausage is made, Amazon's internal engineering culture is a textbook example of the principal/agent problem. You only get a raise from a promo, and you only get a promo from scope. It's way easier for management to demonstrate scope and so those folks build out empires of crap. In the best case they're just consuming oxygen, but I have definitely seen orgs created that were a negative influence on productivity.
- darkwater 5mo ago
  Never worked for BigTech, so I'mm really not in my territory, but I wonder what is the purpose of all those interviews to get "the best of the best" and then let these things happen. What are the incentives for the management layer?
  - 33MHz-i486 5mo ago
    probably the main thing is just having low-level engineers competent enough to run operations on the dozens of poorly maintained 50k LoC codebases per team, hundreds of bespoke internal dependencies, processes, and custom tooling. build ecosystems of 5+ languages. secondarily its an industrialization of software development. the hiring process is where they try define the labor as a replaceable component. grab the best cogs you can annually for the lowest price, run them in the machine for 2-4 years and swap most of them out before they get too expensive, or specialized or uppity.