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You need density for trains, but Portlanders think it is a war crime to ask you to work from an office or tear down a dead mall to build housing, so…
by n8cpdx 5mo ago
You need density for trains, but Portlanders think it is a war crime to ask you to work from an office or tear down a dead mall to build housing, so…
- Ritewut 5mo agoPortlanders do not think this. Survey people in Portland and you'll find they want trains as well. NIMBYs don't and NIMBYs make up the majority of people who actually have the time and wealth to go to city meetings.
- n8cpdx 5mo agoI heard people in the kitchen at work whining about the loss of Lloyd center (dead mall) which is set to be replaced by 5,000 housing units.
- hackable_sand 5mo agoBut you didn't join the conversation, just listened from a distance and made assumptions?
- n8cpdx 5mo agoI was busy. What is the assumption I’m accused of making?
- Ritewut 5mo agoYou assumed they are against density and not just mourning a nostalgic place for them?
- n8cpdx 5mo agoIf you say you support density but that support withers away at the slightest hint of nostalgia or trade off, or because some old ladies walk in the dead mall sometimes (that was the cited reason), then you don’t really support density. NIMBYs are usually not against new stuff in their backyard, they really just don’t want to lose the historic parking structures and culturally relevant SFHs already there. Perhaps you are harboring NIMBY views you refuse to acknowledge and you are feeling defensive? Are you holding onto the corpse of Lloyd center?
- xboxnolifes 5mo agoLiterally nowhere did you mention that they said their support for density withered. You only said they mourned the loss of a mall they liked. Those are not conflicting things. Mourning something does not imply disliking the thing that replaced it.
- n8cpdx 5mo agoIn context, when they said, “that mall is rad, I hope they block it there’s a campaign to stop the demolition” made it pretty close to unambiguous. Why are people assuming that the kitchen coworkers are reasonable and that I am somehow making assumptions? I was there, I heard the conversation, HN replies did not. Portlanders are notorious for this sort of tradeoff-ignoring woo woo bullshit anyway, frankly it isn’t an extraordinary claim.
- n8cpdx 5mo agoYou can want trains while simultaneously detesting all of the conditions that make trains viable. Just like you can want to drive to work every day and also want to never be in traffic. NIMBYism has nothing to do with being averse to working downtown or tearing down a mall (a radically YIMBY position regarding dead malls).
- Ritewut 5mo agoI don't know many if any YIMBYs who are opposed to density. I know people who are opposed to density being seen as only apartments and condos.
- n8cpdx 5mo agoWhat do you think density means? A mixed use neighborhood of apartments, condos, retail, and office is density. The only other categories are heavy manufacturing (which is harder to argue for) and single family homes, which are not dense by definition.
- Ritewut 5mo ago5,000 units of apartments is not mixed use so unless there is more to the story you're leaving out, this is not mixed use.
- n8cpdx 5mo ago5,000 units can also be built alongside entirely too much office space and ground floor retail, which is mixed use. I’m not sure if you’ve ever been to Portland but the predominant problem is still too much office and retail space (much of it empty) and not enough residential space; every apartment I have lived in and almost every apartment building I walk by day to day has vacant ground floor retail.
- Ritewut 5mo agoThat is entirely because there is no land value tax so owners are incentivized to keep the space empty.