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Hey, author of the piece here. Glad people seem to have enjoyed it. If you're looking for more sources on ASML/EUV I put together a bibliography of things I loo

Hey, author of the piece here. Glad people seem to have enjoyed it. If you're looking for more sources on ASML/EUV I put together a bibliography of things I looked at while writing the piece https://neilhacker.com/2026/04/28/asml-article-bibliography/ https://neilhacker.com/2026/04/28/asml-article-bibliography/

chirau 6mo ago
Who ruled this the most complex machine? And by what metric?
- rigonkulous 6mo ago
  There's a thing in writing where you can make bold claims in order to give the reader an idea about what the rest of the article is going to be about - that's whats happening here, a bit of editorializing .. but do you know of a more complex machine than the ASML/TSMC production line, in terms of inputs/outputs? I think, if one were used to calculating cyclomatic complexity, such a headline is not only amusing, but also fascinating even if it is 'wrong' by .. some value system .. because the thought exercise to come up with a more cyclomatically complex machine, is rather a fruitful challenge. And that is why writers should be allowed to editorialize, because .. after all .. this is a thought-provoking article, isn't it ..
  - i_am_a_peasant 6mo ago
    so it had an unusual amount of inputs and outputs? that's the measure?
    - rigonkulous 6mo ago
      For this thought experiment I would welcome you to contribute another measure besides cyclomatic complexity as a means of ascertaining the truth of the matter, because after all complexity is multi-dimensional, but on the basis of number of actual things that have to be qualitatively measured in order for the machine to function as intended, I can think of a few other big machines that would be in scope, but - as a person who does complex systems work professionally - I'm pretty sure that the editorializing was a way to kick off some neurons in the intended audience, and not much more than that. However, let us continue to postulate there are other forms of complexity that can be measured - what would you suggest are the other 3 or 4 contenders for the title?
      - i_am_a_peasant 6mo ago
        Contenders: ASML: Complexity as a strategic resource ASML: The most hard to reproduce machine in the world ASML: One of Europe's most complex strategic resources
    - 12_throw_away 6mo ago
      > that's the measure? As the the comment you're replying to just said, A) it's qualitative and B) it's perfectly fine to glaze the subject a bit in journalistic writing. It gives the article a quick hook to get readers interested, and if you actually read the article it becomes the least interesting thing about it. And now that I've said that: I'd argue that if you consider the full "embodied complexity" of this machine's product lifecycle, it's hard to think of much else that compares to it. E.g., consider not just the machine itself, but also all of the R&D needed to get it to this point, and the amount of field experience necessary to make maintainable and reliable, and the engineering and supply-chain work necessary so that you can reliably ship them to customers around the world? While still being far, far ahead of all your competitors?
fuzzfactor 6mo ago
Excellent article, Mr. Hacker :) >ASML started off life within Philips, the Dutch consumer electronics giant. Who started with light bulbs which were using the electrons for direct visual and UI/UX purposes. Some of the most simple electronic components, but quite a bit like appliances themselves. No surprise a lamp in English means either a bulb, an appliance, or both. Vacuum tubes were the next step up in complexity and I guess you can take it from there. In the early radio days it didn't take too many "ampules" to make a radio. Not nearly as complex as a cellphone, but bizarrely more complicated than a light bulb already. The Edison Effect turned out to be a very strong force after all :) At one time every building that had electronics, had vacuum tubes. When you moved a radio or TV set, you were carrying your own little vacuum chambers with you from place to place, even as late as CRT's. With solid-state electronics like this, the vacuum chambers are much bigger, but are only located in a centralized factory process, so you don't have to carry them around with you if you want to be portable. You wouldn't want to anyway, look how heavy they have gotten ;)
- robocat 6mo ago
  Many modern electronics still contain a vacuum because MEMS gyroscopes use a high vacuum. The search response also said MEMS oscillators (modern performance replacements for quartz crystals) use a high vacuum but given the iPhone 8 was famously "bricked" by Helium affecting a MEMS oscillator - I'm unsure about that! https://www.vice.com/en/article/why-a-helium-leak-disabled-every-iphone-in-a-medical-facility/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/why-a-helium-leak-disabled-e... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_system_oscillator#Limitations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_system_...
  - oasisaimlessly 6mo ago
    MEMS oscillators do use a vacuum, and that's why they're susceptible to helium. A helium atom is tiny compared to an oxygen or nitrogen atom, and can leak through many otherwise-perfect seals. So, a (badly-designed) MEMS oscillator is basically a region of vacuum enclosed by a membrane that only helium can permeate. Of course exposing it to helium is going to permanently change its behavior! Once the helium gets in, there's no reason for it to leave, due to the vastly higher atmospheric pressure outside.
glasss 6mo ago
Great piece, I definitely enjoyed reading through it. I don't have a question about ASML or the machine in particular, but I am curious about your thoughts on something: I've recently noticed a fair bit of media (blogs, YouTube videos, TikTok clips) about the same thing: this machine and the EUV process. Do you think interest in this topic is just a coincidence or did something happen to cause these different content creators and authors to do a piece on it at around the same time? What caused you to do a piece on this now?

chirau 6mo ago

Who ruled this the most complex machine? And by what metric?

rigonkulous 6mo ago
There's a thing in writing where you can make bold claims in order to give the reader an idea about what the rest of the article is going to be about - that's whats happening here, a bit of editorializing .. but do you know of a more complex machine than the ASML/TSMC production line, in terms of inputs/outputs? I think, if one were used to calculating cyclomatic complexity, such a headline is not only amusing, but also fascinating even if it is 'wrong' by .. some value system .. because the thought exercise to come up with a more cyclomatically complex machine, is rather a fruitful challenge. And that is why writers should be allowed to editorialize, because .. after all .. this is a thought-provoking article, isn't it ..
- i_am_a_peasant 6mo ago
  so it had an unusual amount of inputs and outputs? that's the measure?
  - rigonkulous 6mo ago
    For this thought experiment I would welcome you to contribute another measure besides cyclomatic complexity as a means of ascertaining the truth of the matter, because after all complexity is multi-dimensional, but on the basis of number of actual things that have to be qualitatively measured in order for the machine to function as intended, I can think of a few other big machines that would be in scope, but - as a person who does complex systems work professionally - I'm pretty sure that the editorializing was a way to kick off some neurons in the intended audience, and not much more than that. However, let us continue to postulate there are other forms of complexity that can be measured - what would you suggest are the other 3 or 4 contenders for the title?
    - i_am_a_peasant 6mo ago
      Contenders: ASML: Complexity as a strategic resource ASML: The most hard to reproduce machine in the world ASML: One of Europe's most complex strategic resources
  - 12_throw_away 6mo ago
    > that's the measure? As the the comment you're replying to just said, A) it's qualitative and B) it's perfectly fine to glaze the subject a bit in journalistic writing. It gives the article a quick hook to get readers interested, and if you actually read the article it becomes the least interesting thing about it. And now that I've said that: I'd argue that if you consider the full "embodied complexity" of this machine's product lifecycle, it's hard to think of much else that compares to it. E.g., consider not just the machine itself, but also all of the R&D needed to get it to this point, and the amount of field experience necessary to make maintainable and reliable, and the engineering and supply-chain work necessary so that you can reliably ship them to customers around the world? While still being far, far ahead of all your competitors?

fuzzfactor 6mo ago

Excellent article, Mr. Hacker :) >ASML started off life within Philips, the Dutch consumer electronics giant. Who started with light bulbs which were using the electrons for direct visual and UI/UX purposes. Some of the most simple electronic components, but quite a bit like appliances themselves. No surprise a lamp in English means either a bulb, an appliance, or both. Vacuum tubes were the next step up in complexity and I guess you can take it from there. In the early radio days it didn't take too many "ampules" to make a radio. Not nearly as complex as a cellphone, but bizarrely more complicated than a light bulb already. The Edison Effect turned out to be a very strong force after all :) At one time every building that had electronics, had vacuum tubes. When you moved a radio or TV set, you were carrying your own little vacuum chambers with you from place to place, even as late as CRT's. With solid-state electronics like this, the vacuum chambers are much bigger, but are only located in a centralized factory process, so you don't have to carry them around with you if you want to be portable. You wouldn't want to anyway, look how heavy they have gotten ;)

robocat 6mo ago
Many modern electronics still contain a vacuum because MEMS gyroscopes use a high vacuum. The search response also said MEMS oscillators (modern performance replacements for quartz crystals) use a high vacuum but given the iPhone 8 was famously "bricked" by Helium affecting a MEMS oscillator - I'm unsure about that! https://www.vice.com/en/article/why-a-helium-leak-disabled-every-iphone-in-a-medical-facility/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/why-a-helium-leak-disabled-e... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_system_oscillator#Limitations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectromechanical_system_...
- oasisaimlessly 6mo ago
  MEMS oscillators do use a vacuum, and that's why they're susceptible to helium. A helium atom is tiny compared to an oxygen or nitrogen atom, and can leak through many otherwise-perfect seals. So, a (badly-designed) MEMS oscillator is basically a region of vacuum enclosed by a membrane that only helium can permeate. Of course exposing it to helium is going to permanently change its behavior! Once the helium gets in, there's no reason for it to leave, due to the vastly higher atmospheric pressure outside.

glasss 6mo ago

Great piece, I definitely enjoyed reading through it. I don't have a question about ASML or the machine in particular, but I am curious about your thoughts on something: I've recently noticed a fair bit of media (blogs, YouTube videos, TikTok clips) about the same thing: this machine and the EUV process. Do you think interest in this topic is just a coincidence or did something happen to cause these different content creators and authors to do a piece on it at around the same time? What caused you to do a piece on this now?