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Do you believe that if the Wright Brothers hadn't flown--and patented their discoveries--that we wouldn't have fixed-wing flight?

codeka 14y ago
How is a page-turning animation, in wide use before Apple filed for patent, in any way comparable to the Wright brothers?
esolyt 14y ago
I'm not even sure if this analogy is sarcastic or serious. We invented books and page-turning 500 years ago. This is just an animation.
incision 14y ago
Sarcasm? I'm having a hard to time understanding how this comparison makes any kind of sense.
Natsu 14y ago
Funny you should use them as an example, because there's a lot of interesting history surrounding that, which you can read about here. I'll give you the highlights for a quick skim, but there's a lot more to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wright_brothers_patent_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wright_brothers_patent_war The patent's importance lies in its claim of a new and useful method of controlling a flying machine, powered or not. The technique of wing-warping is described, but the patent explicitly states that other methods instead of wing-warping could be used for adjusting the outer portions of a machine's wings to different angles on the right and left sides to achieve lateral roll control. The concept of lateral control was basic to all aircraft designs; without it they could not be easily or safely controlled in flight.[7] The broad protection intended by this patent succeeded when the Wrights won patent infringement lawsuits against Glenn Curtiss and other early aviators who devised ailerons to emulate lateral control described in the patent and demonstrated by the Wrights in their 1908 public flights. U.S. courts decided that ailerons were also covered by the patent. [...] The Wrights' preoccupation with the legal issue hindered their development of new aircraft designs, and by 1911 Wright aircraft were inferior to those made by other firms in Europe.[10] Indeed, aviation development in the U.S. was suppressed to such an extent that when the country entered World War I no acceptable American-designed aircraft were available, and U.S. forces were compelled to use French machines. In January 1914, a U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the verdict in favor of the Wrights against the Curtiss company, which continued to avoid penalties through legal tactics. [...] The patent pool solution In 1917, the two major patent holders, the Wright Company and the Curtiss Company, had effectively blocked the building of new airplanes, which were desperately needed as the United States was entering World War I. The U.S. government, as a result of a recommendation of a committee formed by Franklin D. Roosevelt, then Assistant Secretary of the Navy, pressured the industry to form a cross-licensing organization (in other terms a Patent pool), the Manufacturer's Aircraft Association.[11][12][13]
- raganwald 14y ago
  This was exactly my point. The patents were overly broad and designed to hinder competition. The overall result was negative for society, not positive. While the Wrights were "first in flight," I have zero confidence that flight wouldn't have been invented without the incentive of a monopoly on flight control.
  - Natsu 14y ago
    Writing a double-negative like that forces me to do a double-take when trying to understand you. Or is it a triple-negative? I'm going to go with, "there were so many inventors, its invention was inevitable" as my interpretation, which I believe is the most correct rendition of the story of flight as I know it.

codeka 14y ago

How is a page-turning animation, in wide use before Apple filed for patent, in any way comparable to the Wright brothers?

esolyt 14y ago

I'm not even sure if this analogy is sarcastic or serious. We invented books and page-turning 500 years ago. This is just an animation.

incision 14y ago

Sarcasm? I'm having a hard to time understanding how this comparison makes any kind of sense.

Natsu 14y ago

Funny you should use them as an example, because there's a lot of interesting history surrounding that, which you can read about here. I'll give you the highlights for a quick skim, but there's a lot more to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wright_brothers_patent_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wright_brothers_patent_war The patent's importance lies in its claim of a new and useful method of controlling a flying machine, powered or not. The technique of wing-warping is described, but the patent explicitly states that other methods instead of wing-warping could be used for adjusting the outer portions of a machine's wings to different angles on the right and left sides to achieve lateral roll control. The concept of lateral control was basic to all aircraft designs; without it they could not be easily or safely controlled in flight.[7] The broad protection intended by this patent succeeded when the Wrights won patent infringement lawsuits against Glenn Curtiss and other early aviators who devised ailerons to emulate lateral control described in the patent and demonstrated by the Wrights in their 1908 public flights. U.S. courts decided that ailerons were also covered by the patent. [...] The Wrights' preoccupation with the legal issue hindered their development of new aircraft designs, and by 1911 Wright aircraft were inferior to those made by other firms in Europe.[10] Indeed, aviation development in the U.S. was suppressed to such an extent that when the country entered World War I no acceptable American-designed aircraft were available, and U.S. forces were compelled to use French machines. In January 1914, a U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the verdict in favor of the Wrights against the Curtiss company, which continued to avoid penalties through legal tactics. [...] The patent pool solution In 1917, the two major patent holders, the Wright Company and the Curtiss Company, had effectively blocked the building of new airplanes, which were desperately needed as the United States was entering World War I. The U.S. government, as a result of a recommendation of a committee formed by Franklin D. Roosevelt, then Assistant Secretary of the Navy, pressured the industry to form a cross-licensing organization (in other terms a Patent pool), the Manufacturer's Aircraft Association.[11][12][13]

raganwald 14y ago
This was exactly my point. The patents were overly broad and designed to hinder competition. The overall result was negative for society, not positive. While the Wrights were "first in flight," I have zero confidence that flight wouldn't have been invented without the incentive of a monopoly on flight control.
- Natsu 14y ago
  Writing a double-negative like that forces me to do a double-take when trying to understand you. Or is it a triple-negative? I'm going to go with, "there were so many inventors, its invention was inevitable" as my interpretation, which I believe is the most correct rendition of the story of flight as I know it.