4 ms·

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are li

by boc 5mo ago

Anybody who has tried to rent an apartment in SF in the past 6 months knows that the city is rebounding fast - avg rents are skyrocketing again and there are lines out the door for 1/2bds. People are locked-in to their covid specials that they outgrew, but can't afford to leave. I watched some friends offer to pay 12 months of rent up-front in cash for a place and still got outbid by another offer. I honestly disagree with this article - it seems to be conflating "economic activity" with extremely high-end real estate sales data in certain neighborhoods. The city feels much more alive in the past 12 months than it was previously, and there is a lot more energy and public events. If there's anything specific to complain about, it's that the AI boom has led to the 996+ crowd staying inside and not contributing much to the local scene, but honestly that's probably fine with everyone involved.

testfrequency 5mo ago
Every sane and persons with a personality/hobby/soul I know who isn’t rotting away at their job, or a career employee at some south bay company they plan to retire from have all left SF for abroad, SoCal, or NYC. My hunch is the people that are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants, who will do the same thing that has ruined the city to begin with. Do nothing to support the local community, spend all their time in Hayes Valley and Marina, buy a Tesla or Porsche that they can drive on the 280 to San Jose, Monterey, Napa - then return to the city to order doordash before trading crypto until they fall asleep and repeat. I have a few friends who are still stuck in SF and they say the city feels the most soulless and rude it’s ever felt. It’s actually made one of my friends turn to anti-depressants as he’s really struggling. He vents to me a lot about how he doesn’t feel like he can connect or talk to anyone anymore, not even baristas at a coffee shop, because everyone has become so anemic.
- ah27182 5mo ago
  Interesting that SoCal becomes an option for these people. What’s the draw with that move?
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - happyopossum 5mo ago
    It’s huge, has great weather, hundreds of cities/neighborhoods to choose from, easy flights to anywhere, and tons of jobs. Oh yeah - dodgers and lakers
    - ah27182 5mo ago
      Tons of jobs? Do you mean in tech, or in general?
  - andsoitis 5mo ago
    SoCal is more cosmopolitan, better weather, more diverse tech landscape, better food, more culture, etc.
- seibelj 5mo ago
  I live in Boston and software is dead here. It’s a biotech city but we used to be a player in software. AI missed us, remote work hollowed it out. I would love some AI dollars flowing here but it’s pretty sad. My hope is some defense tech drone stuff blows up but your problems would be welcome on the east coast!
  - simoncion 5mo ago
    I'm not sure why this got flagged... I wonder if someone misunderstood what "My hope is some defense tech drone stuff blows up..." meant. As for > ...remote work hollowed it out... there's a simple solution: make it so that ordinary folks can actually afford to raise a family in the city. If folks can afford to raise a family in your city, then they're there for more than just the big paycheck, and won't run screaming the moment their well-paying job stops chaining them to an absurdly expensive city.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- boc 5mo ago
  As someone who lives and works in SF, I think it depends quite a bit on your social scene and neighborhood. Where I'm at it's constantly alive with people in the parks, out for running/biking groups, going to farmer's markets, attending art fairs, bars overflowing, etc. I meet lots of interesting people and enjoy the scene quite a bit, but maybe I run in a younger crowd than your friend who complains about the city. Not here to change your mind, but I'm "defending" SF because I've never experienced such a difference between the lived experience in a city and the online vitriol you see constantly about it. It's a true "don't believe your lying eyes" situation and it's honestly a bit disorienting.
- simoncion 5mo ago
  > My hunch is the people are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants... I've absolutely nothing against transplants [0], but transplants that treat this place as the "mining town" that the major landowners and Supervisors have made it to be definitely suck the life and the weird out of the city. There may be be a bunch of people driving up rents for the city's criminally-scarce -and frequently substandard- housing, but that doesn't mean that the city's not in deep shit. I roam around the city a whole lot on foot, and I see so, so many shuttered businesses and empty storefronts... even in places that were going gangbusters ten, fifteen years ago. The only places that seem to be doing quite well are the places that serve the poorest in the city -such as much of the Tenderloin-, [1] which are places that these new transplants would probably never, ever set foot in. [0] I'm sure that you don't, either... not in general, anyway. [1] I can't explain why these places are still doing great. Perhaps it's because the landowners and business managers understand that there's absolutely no way that they can get anything other than a perfectly normal rate of return from these properties... so the batshit insane stuff we see in the fancier parts of town that keeps commercial spaces in fine locations empty for ten+ years and forces out healthy businesses that have been in their space for decades simply doesn't happen? [2] [2] For folks who want to retort that I simply don't understand how any of this works: Remember that California has Property Tax Control (by way of the 197X "Proposition 13"), which means that a landowner's property tax increases by a very small percentage of its originally assessed value each year, rather than what would be that property's current assessed value. What this means is that as long as a property does not change hands, the property tax paid by that landowner pretty much never increases... and there are ways to redirect the profits from and effective control of that property to a new human or corporate entity while ensuring that that property fails to legally change hands.
polskibus 5mo ago
How big is the 996 crowd compared to the total tech employment in SF? Is it really that popular?
- hunterpayne 5mo ago
  It was a ghost town last time I was there about 6 months ago. You could walk down the middle of Market St at 9am on a weekday because its so empty. The only time I ever saw SF as empty was 9/11/01.
  - boc 5mo ago
    That's because market street is closed to cars now. It's essentially a pedestrian corridor with the trolley/busses.
    - hunterpayne 5mo ago
      They made that change 10 years ago. There were still plenty of cars on it until 2020. Why are you lying to people?
  - spaniard000 5mo ago
    You posted this about 19 days ago: "This is the country that takes a 2 hour nap every day. They also have a sleeping contest every year with a winner and everything. And Spain isn't hot like Mexico where folks take 2 hours off in the topically heat and make it up for it in the evening because that's more efficient." You are a fucking moron, not only have you no idea about my country but you revel on your ignorance and preen publicly about its inferiority as confabulated by you. You are a disgusting piece of waste and I hope people like you in your country continue their path off the cliff of relevance and power they have chosen. I find you repugnant to the extreme.
    - hunterpayne 5mo ago
      I lived in Spain for a time during their summer. Don't like the truth, don't go on the Internet.
nandomrumber 5mo ago
> the 996+ crowd What does this mean?
- inejge 5mo ago
  The plus I haven't encountered before, but "996" is a Google away. In short, working 9 AM to 9 PM, six days per week.
  - nandomrumber 5mo ago
    If I wanted a machine response I’m quite capable of using my preferred tools. I come here for the conversation. Your comment would have been better without the needles reminder that search providers exist.
- pllbnk 5mo ago
  Mid-20's tech guys vigorously prompting LLM agents in the race to burn as many tokens as possible during 72-hour work week (9 am-9 pm, 6 days per week) in order to, paradoxically, not need to work anymore once AGI is achieved.
  - nandomrumber 5mo ago
    Thanks, now that you mention it I was aware of this. But it wasn’t immediately obvious to me what was being discussed in this context, to me it looked like it was maybe a reference for to a certain set of postcodes or telephone number prefixes in reference to a certain set of people or some such. I think the plus threw me.

by boc 5mo ago

testfrequency 5mo ago

Every sane and persons with a personality/hobby/soul I know who isn’t rotting away at their job, or a career employee at some south bay company they plan to retire from have all left SF for abroad, SoCal, or NYC. My hunch is the people that are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants, who will do the same thing that has ruined the city to begin with. Do nothing to support the local community, spend all their time in Hayes Valley and Marina, buy a Tesla or Porsche that they can drive on the 280 to San Jose, Monterey, Napa - then return to the city to order doordash before trading crypto until they fall asleep and repeat. I have a few friends who are still stuck in SF and they say the city feels the most soulless and rude it’s ever felt. It’s actually made one of my friends turn to anti-depressants as he’s really struggling. He vents to me a lot about how he doesn’t feel like he can connect or talk to anyone anymore, not even baristas at a coffee shop, because everyone has become so anemic.

ah27182 5mo ago
Interesting that SoCal becomes an option for these people. What’s the draw with that move?
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- happyopossum 5mo ago
  It’s huge, has great weather, hundreds of cities/neighborhoods to choose from, easy flights to anywhere, and tons of jobs. Oh yeah - dodgers and lakers
  - ah27182 5mo ago
    Tons of jobs? Do you mean in tech, or in general?
- andsoitis 5mo ago
  SoCal is more cosmopolitan, better weather, more diverse tech landscape, better food, more culture, etc.
seibelj 5mo ago
I live in Boston and software is dead here. It’s a biotech city but we used to be a player in software. AI missed us, remote work hollowed it out. I would love some AI dollars flowing here but it’s pretty sad. My hope is some defense tech drone stuff blows up but your problems would be welcome on the east coast!
- simoncion 5mo ago
  I'm not sure why this got flagged... I wonder if someone misunderstood what "My hope is some defense tech drone stuff blows up..." meant. As for > ...remote work hollowed it out... there's a simple solution: make it so that ordinary folks can actually afford to raise a family in the city. If folks can afford to raise a family in your city, then they're there for more than just the big paycheck, and won't run screaming the moment their well-paying job stops chaining them to an absurdly expensive city.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
boc 5mo ago
As someone who lives and works in SF, I think it depends quite a bit on your social scene and neighborhood. Where I'm at it's constantly alive with people in the parks, out for running/biking groups, going to farmer's markets, attending art fairs, bars overflowing, etc. I meet lots of interesting people and enjoy the scene quite a bit, but maybe I run in a younger crowd than your friend who complains about the city. Not here to change your mind, but I'm "defending" SF because I've never experienced such a difference between the lived experience in a city and the online vitriol you see constantly about it. It's a true "don't believe your lying eyes" situation and it's honestly a bit disorienting.
simoncion 5mo ago
> My hunch is the people are competing for housing are mostly new AI sector transplants... I've absolutely nothing against transplants [0], but transplants that treat this place as the "mining town" that the major landowners and Supervisors have made it to be definitely suck the life and the weird out of the city. There may be be a bunch of people driving up rents for the city's criminally-scarce -and frequently substandard- housing, but that doesn't mean that the city's not in deep shit. I roam around the city a whole lot on foot, and I see so, so many shuttered businesses and empty storefronts... even in places that were going gangbusters ten, fifteen years ago. The only places that seem to be doing quite well are the places that serve the poorest in the city -such as much of the Tenderloin-, [1] which are places that these new transplants would probably never, ever set foot in. [0] I'm sure that you don't, either... not in general, anyway. [1] I can't explain why these places are still doing great. Perhaps it's because the landowners and business managers understand that there's absolutely no way that they can get anything other than a perfectly normal rate of return from these properties... so the batshit insane stuff we see in the fancier parts of town that keeps commercial spaces in fine locations empty for ten+ years and forces out healthy businesses that have been in their space for decades simply doesn't happen? [2] [2] For folks who want to retort that I simply don't understand how any of this works: Remember that California has Property Tax Control (by way of the 197X "Proposition 13"), which means that a landowner's property tax increases by a very small percentage of its originally assessed value each year, rather than what would be that property's current assessed value. What this means is that as long as a property does not change hands, the property tax paid by that landowner pretty much never increases... and there are ways to redirect the profits from and effective control of that property to a new human or corporate entity while ensuring that that property fails to legally change hands.

polskibus 5mo ago

How big is the 996 crowd compared to the total tech employment in SF? Is it really that popular?

hunterpayne 5mo ago
It was a ghost town last time I was there about 6 months ago. You could walk down the middle of Market St at 9am on a weekday because its so empty. The only time I ever saw SF as empty was 9/11/01.
- boc 5mo ago
  That's because market street is closed to cars now. It's essentially a pedestrian corridor with the trolley/busses.
  - hunterpayne 5mo ago
    They made that change 10 years ago. There were still plenty of cars on it until 2020. Why are you lying to people?
- spaniard000 5mo ago
  You posted this about 19 days ago: "This is the country that takes a 2 hour nap every day. They also have a sleeping contest every year with a winner and everything. And Spain isn't hot like Mexico where folks take 2 hours off in the topically heat and make it up for it in the evening because that's more efficient." You are a fucking moron, not only have you no idea about my country but you revel on your ignorance and preen publicly about its inferiority as confabulated by you. You are a disgusting piece of waste and I hope people like you in your country continue their path off the cliff of relevance and power they have chosen. I find you repugnant to the extreme.
  - hunterpayne 5mo ago
    I lived in Spain for a time during their summer. Don't like the truth, don't go on the Internet.

nandomrumber 5mo ago

> the 996+ crowd What does this mean?

inejge 5mo ago
The plus I haven't encountered before, but "996" is a Google away. In short, working 9 AM to 9 PM, six days per week.
- nandomrumber 5mo ago
  If I wanted a machine response I’m quite capable of using my preferred tools. I come here for the conversation. Your comment would have been better without the needles reminder that search providers exist.
pllbnk 5mo ago
Mid-20's tech guys vigorously prompting LLM agents in the race to burn as many tokens as possible during 72-hour work week (9 am-9 pm, 6 days per week) in order to, paradoxically, not need to work anymore once AGI is achieved.
- nandomrumber 5mo ago
  Thanks, now that you mention it I was aware of this. But it wasn’t immediately obvious to me what was being discussed in this context, to me it looked like it was maybe a reference for to a certain set of postcodes or telephone number prefixes in reference to a certain set of people or some such. I think the plus threw me.