8 ms·

Why I’m not backing you on Kickstarter

136 points by jheitzeb 14y ago

polskibus 14y ago
Lots of trolling and ranting. I mean seriously, kickstarter is an incubator. If you don't like it, don't participate. No need to whine about it loud. Instead of being really constructive in his critique, the author provides shallow critique.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- daniel-cussen 14y ago
  No. It was certainly constructive, just not without humor. For instance, he goes into detail on risks and challenges, saying that From Holden uses this section to talk further about how awesome it is, rather than talking simply talking about risks and challenges. This could have helped From Holden for next time; it is constructive.
- duiker101 14y ago
  I agree, the article might not be the best critique ever but I think there is a need to rise some noise about Kickstarter, not because I hate it or whatever, but because it made noise and now people are using it in the wrong way so to educate it's users we must give a strong, clear message of how to use it. And it should be a message both for founders and backers. What I get from the article is that this guys had an idea and 24 hours later they created the Kickstarter. This is partly wrong, what is totally wrong is people supporting them(please note this is just my opinion) because you can find everywhere cheap shirts, even good ones. There a huge market about it what would make you think that some random guy can do better? Just because they say so? If this would make any money companies would have already adopted this. When approaching Kickstarter I think one(with an idea or a prototype) should make it clear what he wants to achieve without the "I will make the best at the lowest price" attitude. Remember the users that backing the project it's a donation with a possible gift and not a preorder. Also you should have thought about it more than 1 day. The day you realize that you can't maintain your promises your reputation might end up destroyed. I think that it's important that we use Kickstarter the correct way because we risk ruining it, when too many people will realize that they will not get what they paid for people will not use it any more, resulting a bad reputation for kickstarter and therefore other projects that might be worth checking.
  - wsul 14y ago
    I've been preparing for this Kickstarter campaign for six months. I'm doing it because I'm truly passionate about fixing a very broken retail/apparel manufacturing model that hasn't changed much in 50 years. I think there is a truly better way to make and sell the best men's clothes, and that is why I'm building this company. Kickstarter happens to be an incredibly efficient way to gain the resources required to continue down this path.
    - intended 14y ago
      Out of curiosity, what were you focusing on during that period? Also whats your background - retail or IT?
      - wsul 14y ago
        My background is in technology. I've built a few software companies. I focused on understanding the manufacturing process, designing the first line, sourcing materials, finding partners, working on fit, thinking about how to market the company in the future, etc. All the things you'd expect. It has been incredibly fun.
- atuttle 14y ago
  I could not find any trolling in the post, and also no whining. I mean, how should we have a discussion about a certain kickstarter project if all you have to say is "If you don't like it, don't participate."
- Nursie 14y ago
  While I agree the article is negative in tone, I don't like this attitude 'if you don't like it shut up and leave us alone' or 'just quit whining'. If someone genuinely feels there are problems with kickstarter, why shouldn't they be allowed to talk about it? I'm not backing you on kickstarter because you're asking me to give you money in the hope of a reward later, instead of it being either a real purchase or a real investment.
  - polskibus 14y ago
    That is specifically the incubator's role. It's a promise, not a shop. Promises can be broken, but they are also innovation's fuel. It's a bit like criticising a baby, for being a baby. You have to let it grow and be patient. If you don't want to support it, then don't. Perhaps I was too harsh in my comment, but kickstarter does not realize a typical transaction-oriented in capitalist sense shop. Some reserve is necessary for ideas to flourish.
    - Nursie 14y ago
      I'm not criticising kickstarter because promises can be broken, I'm just saying that I don't find it compelling as it's neither an investment nor a purchase. A micro-investment platform would be far more interesting to me.
      - Domenic_S 14y ago
        Exactly this. Kickstarter croudsources the risk, and the upside is 'you get this thing we want to make', where you could instead just wait for that thing to be made and buy it. I would rather have given Pebble $200 or $2000 for a (admittedly tiny) piece of the company. That's compelling. The risk is way, way too high for the reward. But the price points are generally so low that it isn't a big deal. It's like playing the Super Lotto, but instead of an infinitesimal chance of winning $10m on a given date, you have a slightly less infinitesimal chance of getting the product you wanted at some nebulous point in the future. All the downside of risk with none of the upside, where do I sign up?!
      - 14y ago
azundo 14y ago
I'd like to see Kickstarter cap the maximum amount a project can raise at some (low) multiple of the minimum goal. I think projects get into a lot of trouble when they raise 6x or 100x more than they expected. That traction is exciting so people dream big and make promises when the cash is rolling in before they've even executed on the core idea. If a project estimates correctly, they should be able to 'kickstart' once the funding goal has been met. After that they can set up their own sales and marketing channels to sell to follow-on customers after the original Kickstarter backers get their rewards. To me this matches the original intent of Kickstarter. Obviously capping funding amounts cuts into Kickstarter's short-term gains. In the long run however I think it would minimize the risk of a high-profile project (or several) failing to deliver and sinking their whole model.
- antr 14y ago
  I agree on the cap idea. Another issue I've come across when projects have been oversubscribed is that the project's level of "customer service" (for lack of a better word) is inversely proportional to the amount pledged. In my case I contacted the Elevation Dock guys twice regarding my pledge, but I never got a reply from them - which is frustrating to say the least. A cap will definitely ease any potential bottleneck and distribution issues as well as focusing/providing good service to a reasonable number of customers.
- EwanToo 14y ago
  I agree 100%. If anything, an enforced cap will increase the exclusivity of an offer, and reduce the number of people who hold off until the last day to back a project - they're the people who are really preordering a product name, not backing an idea.
  - ru_nj 14y ago
    A project that gets backed to 100% and can deliver on it has a viable business plan. There is nothing stopping people from selling their stuff elsewhere, in fact: that's what they should do.
  - wsul 14y ago
ljd 14y ago
I have a hard time taking opinion pieces like this blog seriously. The verbiage is so strongly connected to his disdain that I can't hear anything through the noise. If you want to be hypercritical of companies using Kickstarter for the first time, you should try to provide real feedback. Mindless comments such as the following are as unhelpful as tips get: "Pro tip: if I, who know your business as well as I know the feeding habits of the Springbok Antelope, can come up with more risks than you can, you’re not doing it right" Here, let's try to write some generic, but probably more helpful feedback: When first filling out the Risks and Challenges section your first inclination will probably be to prove how there are no risks and no challenges. Instead of taking this path, be open about what you feel the risks are and your plan for minimizing them. Talk about the challenges you currently are facing and how you've solved other challenges in the past. If I'm going to sail out to sea with you on this voyage you'll be more likely to convince me you know how to handle a storm than to tell me there won't be any storms at all. If you are thinking about doing a kickstarter campaign and you come across this blog it's not going to help you tackle any of the issues that he outlines. At best, it's just the author posturing with, "If your campaign doesn't meet my guidelines then I'll use social signaling to embarrass your company." I would rather see high quality writing about how to be successful in raising money and delivering on Kickstarter.
- raganwald 14y ago
  When first filling out the Risks and Challenges section your first inclination will probably be to prove how there are no risks and no challenges. Instead of taking this path, be open about what you feel the risks are and your plan for minimizing them. Talk about the challenges you currently are facing and how you've solved other challenges in the past. If I'm going to sail out to sea with you on this voyage you'll be more likely to convince me you know how to handle a storm than to tell me there won't be any storms at all. What you suggest is another, different, and also valuable blog post. His choice: Pro tip: if I, who know your business as well as I know the feeding habits of the Springbok Antelope, can come up with more risks than you can, you’re not doing it right. It's disdainful, sure, and not to my taste, but it's memorable and cuts right to the issue. He's trying to be George Carlin. There's some value overall in a reasoned argument, and some value overall in a certain amount of hip hectoring if the author can piggyback wisdom on entertainment.
ru_nj 14y ago
As a serial backer (6 projects backed) I pretty much agree. However, kickstarter does (for whatever reason) not look as itself as a store, if that truly is the case then a project that does not have any risks or challenges shouldn't be allowed on kickstarter.
kamaal 14y ago
Lets be frank kickstarter sort of really blows up in the face of many VC's and traditional investors. Watching a project you would never fund get super successful and go on to do profit especially in order of millions(in case of Pebble watch) can be very frustrating for a VC/investor. Its like watching a rebel guy you didn't like and thought will never to well, go to work for the guy you hate and then both do amazingly well. Besides this whole model of skipping a VC/investor to go directly to customers and then make super profits is a disruptive trend for investors.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- timjahn 14y ago
  "Besides this whole model of skipping a VC/investor to go directly to customers and then make super profits is a disruptive trend for investors." Having customers pre-order a product and pay directly for it isn't exactly disruptive.
  - wsul 14y ago
    I think Kickstarter's innovation is in building a brand that people/press know and trust, their design of forcing time constraints, and the ability to add demand for an offering. My money is that they continue amping up social features to allow more gamified sharing and the like which will only increase the attractiveness of their proposition.
    - intended 14y ago
      Heh if I could, I would be shorting kick starter stock. This is like the sales pitches pre-real estate collapse. "The markets have steadily risen at 5-10% so its safe to take a 4.5-8% variable interest mortgage!" Then things go wrong. I lose my bet if KS can dodge a hit to their reputation, by ensuring that their system doesn't get gamed or become a target for cons. Edit: Incidentally the reason VCs and others don't invest in some ideas is because of ticket size of the initial investment and final ability to knock it out of the park. (the 9 in 10 fail, but the 10th is Google rule) So VCs are never going to be worried about losing out on KS projects except very rarely. On the other hand, I know that I can create a sales pitch for a vapor ware product which sounds good enough to at least get some funding, and use that to create more believable KS pitches. Speculation of course - I assume that this is something KS has worked on.
dutchbrit 14y ago
To answer your question regarding 'Who', it's William Sulinski. Company is Shareaholic. I know, you could find this out too. But if they mention things, they should mention it properly since it's not clear at all. I quite like this idea by the way, I just can't back them since I refuse to get a Credit Card :)
- lerouxb 14y ago
  Then get some other kind of account with a Visa/Mastercard number?
jonnathanson 14y ago
I don't necessarily agree with a lot of this post. But I will admit that Kickstarter has a serious problem on its hands, namely, a growing dichotomy between its emergent user behavior (preordering) and its intended user behavior (crowdfunding). The site has gone to great lengths in recent months to stamp out the former -- even going so far as to announce "We're not a store," and to impose a lot of restrictions on project listings. IMO, these moves have only exacerbated the problem at hand. Now you've got a presumptive majority of users who still treat Kickstarter like a preordering site, but who get even fewer details about what they think they're preodering. Case in point: lots of blog posts like this one, which claim they grok the idea that they're not preordering finished goods, but nevertheless complain that they're not preordering finished goods. There's a very clear disconnect between intellectual admission ("I realize I may not actually get this item") and emotional expectation ("Where the f--- is my item???"). This is a recipe for cognitive dissonance, and it leaves a lot of very vocal users frustrated. Some of those users may be right, and others may be off base -- but they are Kickstarter's problem, regardless. Quite frankly, I don't think there's a fantastic solution to this problem. But project categorization/tiering seems like at least a halfway decent step. Kickstarter should ask its listers to choose which stage of the idea they're in: early concept, prototype, pre-sale, etc. (I'm sure they can come up with better names for these categories). And that stage would be made very clear to the users/backers from the get go. I don't think Kickstarter can continue to grow, or even last, without preordering. That just seems to be the dominant use case most people have for the site. It's here to stay. If Kickstarter shies away from it, some other crowdfunding company will claim the space and leave Kickstarter in the dust. Rather than trying to stamp it out, Kickstarter should embrace it -- but at the same time, take steps to differentiate it from true kickstarting.
- jebblue 14y ago
  Your post was thoughtful and articulate. I thought I'd check the site as though I were considering starting a project there. First I checked the Guidelines: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines Part of the first Guideline says: "A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project." If I were starting a project it seems clear that the expectation is that I deliver something. I'm not clear if that agrees with your view or not I guess I'm not clear what the expectation of crowdsourcing is. Maybe it's just a buzzword.
crusso 14y ago
While we're on a Kickstarter thread, I have a GREAT idea for a Kickstarter project. It's really unique and has never been done before. I'm suggesting right here and now that someone create a Kickstarter project for a 3D printer. With such a unique and interesting offering, how could such a project not succeed? Don't forget to give me credit for the idea when you eventually see it appear on Kickstarter. [for the humor impaired, the above is sarcasm]
jermaink 14y ago
Oh no, not another 'Why I' article. This is at least the 5th on the frontpage today. I'm getting tired of these stories... HN starts to feel like being in Groundhog Day.
wsul 14y ago
Hey all, I started the company formerly known as From Holden (we're renaming), and wrote all the copy for the Kickstarter campaign. I posted a reply on Dan's blog, would love to answer any other questions or hear any other thoughts there or here! http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/11/this-is-why-im-not-backing-you-on-kickstarter/#comment-711853394 http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/11/this-is-why-im-not-ba...
- tg3 14y ago
  In that post, your response to the risks section is that "there is literally no chance we're going to fail at delivering incredibly crafted shirts to all our backers." That is so completely disconnected from the world of reality that it shows a tremendous lack of foresight. Read literally any prospectus for companies much more proven and stable than yours and you'll see a litany of legitimate risks surrounding the business. Yours is no different. As a company who has, by definition, never done this before, your risks are quite high. What if the fabric from your supplier is inconsistent in quality, do you have another supplier? What if your estimates are off, and labor+fabric costs more than $8, will your margins allow you to deliver? What if every other large manufacturer has discovered that the cheaper labor available overseas more than offsets the increased shipping costs? What if your manufacturer has a work stoppage, do you have another manufacturer you can turn to of high quality? What if their factory burns down? What if their quality is inconsistent? What if they don't deliver finished goods on time? What if your fabric gets damaged en route, do you have insurance? I know next to nothing about clothing manufacturing, and I just listed more risks than you did. The risks section is not intended to be an exercise in braggadocio.
  - wsul 14y ago
    Trey, I'm not saying there are no risks -- there are. I promise there will be hiccups along the way, anything you mentioned could happen. As an entrepreneur, I work as hard as I can to mitigate these risks by having multiple mills, sewing contractors, etc. but shit WILL happen. What I meant is that, no matter what happens, I'm going to make and deliver high quality shirts. Small hiccups will happen, but the only thing that makes us fail is me giving up, and that isn't going to happen.
jamesmcn 14y ago
Can someone explain the whole frozen jeans thing? That sounds weirdly awesome. Particularly in the summer.

136 points by jheitzeb 14y ago

Lots of trolling and ranting. I mean seriously, kickstarter is an incubator. If you don't like it, don't participate. No need to whine about it loud. Instead of being really constructive in his critique, the author provides shallow critique.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
daniel-cussen 14y ago
No. It was certainly constructive, just not without humor. For instance, he goes into detail on risks and challenges, saying that From Holden uses this section to talk further about how awesome it is, rather than talking simply talking about risks and challenges. This could have helped From Holden for next time; it is constructive.
duiker101 14y ago
I agree, the article might not be the best critique ever but I think there is a need to rise some noise about Kickstarter, not because I hate it or whatever, but because it made noise and now people are using it in the wrong way so to educate it's users we must give a strong, clear message of how to use it. And it should be a message both for founders and backers. What I get from the article is that this guys had an idea and 24 hours later they created the Kickstarter. This is partly wrong, what is totally wrong is people supporting them(please note this is just my opinion) because you can find everywhere cheap shirts, even good ones. There a huge market about it what would make you think that some random guy can do better? Just because they say so? If this would make any money companies would have already adopted this. When approaching Kickstarter I think one(with an idea or a prototype) should make it clear what he wants to achieve without the "I will make the best at the lowest price" attitude. Remember the users that backing the project it's a donation with a possible gift and not a preorder. Also you should have thought about it more than 1 day. The day you realize that you can't maintain your promises your reputation might end up destroyed. I think that it's important that we use Kickstarter the correct way because we risk ruining it, when too many people will realize that they will not get what they paid for people will not use it any more, resulting a bad reputation for kickstarter and therefore other projects that might be worth checking.
- wsul 14y ago
  I've been preparing for this Kickstarter campaign for six months. I'm doing it because I'm truly passionate about fixing a very broken retail/apparel manufacturing model that hasn't changed much in 50 years. I think there is a truly better way to make and sell the best men's clothes, and that is why I'm building this company. Kickstarter happens to be an incredibly efficient way to gain the resources required to continue down this path.
  - intended 14y ago
    Out of curiosity, what were you focusing on during that period? Also whats your background - retail or IT?
    - wsul 14y ago
      My background is in technology. I've built a few software companies. I focused on understanding the manufacturing process, designing the first line, sourcing materials, finding partners, working on fit, thinking about how to market the company in the future, etc. All the things you'd expect. It has been incredibly fun.
atuttle 14y ago
I could not find any trolling in the post, and also no whining. I mean, how should we have a discussion about a certain kickstarter project if all you have to say is "If you don't like it, don't participate."
Nursie 14y ago
While I agree the article is negative in tone, I don't like this attitude 'if you don't like it shut up and leave us alone' or 'just quit whining'. If someone genuinely feels there are problems with kickstarter, why shouldn't they be allowed to talk about it? I'm not backing you on kickstarter because you're asking me to give you money in the hope of a reward later, instead of it being either a real purchase or a real investment.
- polskibus 14y ago
  That is specifically the incubator's role. It's a promise, not a shop. Promises can be broken, but they are also innovation's fuel. It's a bit like criticising a baby, for being a baby. You have to let it grow and be patient. If you don't want to support it, then don't. Perhaps I was too harsh in my comment, but kickstarter does not realize a typical transaction-oriented in capitalist sense shop. Some reserve is necessary for ideas to flourish.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    I'm not criticising kickstarter because promises can be broken, I'm just saying that I don't find it compelling as it's neither an investment nor a purchase. A micro-investment platform would be far more interesting to me.
    - Domenic_S 14y ago
      Exactly this. Kickstarter croudsources the risk, and the upside is 'you get this thing we want to make', where you could instead just wait for that thing to be made and buy it. I would rather have given Pebble $200 or $2000 for a (admittedly tiny) piece of the company. That's compelling. The risk is way, way too high for the reward. But the price points are generally so low that it isn't a big deal. It's like playing the Super Lotto, but instead of an infinitesimal chance of winning $10m on a given date, you have a slightly less infinitesimal chance of getting the product you wanted at some nebulous point in the future. All the downside of risk with none of the upside, where do I sign up?!
    - 14y ago

azundo 14y ago

I'd like to see Kickstarter cap the maximum amount a project can raise at some (low) multiple of the minimum goal. I think projects get into a lot of trouble when they raise 6x or 100x more than they expected. That traction is exciting so people dream big and make promises when the cash is rolling in before they've even executed on the core idea. If a project estimates correctly, they should be able to 'kickstart' once the funding goal has been met. After that they can set up their own sales and marketing channels to sell to follow-on customers after the original Kickstarter backers get their rewards. To me this matches the original intent of Kickstarter. Obviously capping funding amounts cuts into Kickstarter's short-term gains. In the long run however I think it would minimize the risk of a high-profile project (or several) failing to deliver and sinking their whole model.

antr 14y ago
I agree on the cap idea. Another issue I've come across when projects have been oversubscribed is that the project's level of "customer service" (for lack of a better word) is inversely proportional to the amount pledged. In my case I contacted the Elevation Dock guys twice regarding my pledge, but I never got a reply from them - which is frustrating to say the least. A cap will definitely ease any potential bottleneck and distribution issues as well as focusing/providing good service to a reasonable number of customers.
EwanToo 14y ago
I agree 100%. If anything, an enforced cap will increase the exclusivity of an offer, and reduce the number of people who hold off until the last day to back a project - they're the people who are really preordering a product name, not backing an idea.
- ru_nj 14y ago
  A project that gets backed to 100% and can deliver on it has a viable business plan. There is nothing stopping people from selling their stuff elsewhere, in fact: that's what they should do.
- wsul 14y ago

ljd 14y ago

I have a hard time taking opinion pieces like this blog seriously. The verbiage is so strongly connected to his disdain that I can't hear anything through the noise. If you want to be hypercritical of companies using Kickstarter for the first time, you should try to provide real feedback. Mindless comments such as the following are as unhelpful as tips get: "Pro tip: if I, who know your business as well as I know the feeding habits of the Springbok Antelope, can come up with more risks than you can, you’re not doing it right" Here, let's try to write some generic, but probably more helpful feedback: When first filling out the Risks and Challenges section your first inclination will probably be to prove how there are no risks and no challenges. Instead of taking this path, be open about what you feel the risks are and your plan for minimizing them. Talk about the challenges you currently are facing and how you've solved other challenges in the past. If I'm going to sail out to sea with you on this voyage you'll be more likely to convince me you know how to handle a storm than to tell me there won't be any storms at all. If you are thinking about doing a kickstarter campaign and you come across this blog it's not going to help you tackle any of the issues that he outlines. At best, it's just the author posturing with, "If your campaign doesn't meet my guidelines then I'll use social signaling to embarrass your company." I would rather see high quality writing about how to be successful in raising money and delivering on Kickstarter.

raganwald 14y ago
When first filling out the Risks and Challenges section your first inclination will probably be to prove how there are no risks and no challenges. Instead of taking this path, be open about what you feel the risks are and your plan for minimizing them. Talk about the challenges you currently are facing and how you've solved other challenges in the past. If I'm going to sail out to sea with you on this voyage you'll be more likely to convince me you know how to handle a storm than to tell me there won't be any storms at all. What you suggest is another, different, and also valuable blog post. His choice: Pro tip: if I, who know your business as well as I know the feeding habits of the Springbok Antelope, can come up with more risks than you can, you’re not doing it right. It's disdainful, sure, and not to my taste, but it's memorable and cuts right to the issue. He's trying to be George Carlin. There's some value overall in a reasoned argument, and some value overall in a certain amount of hip hectoring if the author can piggyback wisdom on entertainment.

ru_nj 14y ago

As a serial backer (6 projects backed) I pretty much agree. However, kickstarter does (for whatever reason) not look as itself as a store, if that truly is the case then a project that does not have any risks or challenges shouldn't be allowed on kickstarter.

kamaal 14y ago

Lets be frank kickstarter sort of really blows up in the face of many VC's and traditional investors. Watching a project you would never fund get super successful and go on to do profit especially in order of millions(in case of Pebble watch) can be very frustrating for a VC/investor. Its like watching a rebel guy you didn't like and thought will never to well, go to work for the guy you hate and then both do amazingly well. Besides this whole model of skipping a VC/investor to go directly to customers and then make super profits is a disruptive trend for investors.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
timjahn 14y ago
"Besides this whole model of skipping a VC/investor to go directly to customers and then make super profits is a disruptive trend for investors." Having customers pre-order a product and pay directly for it isn't exactly disruptive.
- wsul 14y ago
  I think Kickstarter's innovation is in building a brand that people/press know and trust, their design of forcing time constraints, and the ability to add demand for an offering. My money is that they continue amping up social features to allow more gamified sharing and the like which will only increase the attractiveness of their proposition.
  - intended 14y ago
    Heh if I could, I would be shorting kick starter stock. This is like the sales pitches pre-real estate collapse. "The markets have steadily risen at 5-10% so its safe to take a 4.5-8% variable interest mortgage!" Then things go wrong. I lose my bet if KS can dodge a hit to their reputation, by ensuring that their system doesn't get gamed or become a target for cons. Edit: Incidentally the reason VCs and others don't invest in some ideas is because of ticket size of the initial investment and final ability to knock it out of the park. (the 9 in 10 fail, but the 10th is Google rule) So VCs are never going to be worried about losing out on KS projects except very rarely. On the other hand, I know that I can create a sales pitch for a vapor ware product which sounds good enough to at least get some funding, and use that to create more believable KS pitches. Speculation of course - I assume that this is something KS has worked on.

dutchbrit 14y ago

To answer your question regarding 'Who', it's William Sulinski. Company is Shareaholic. I know, you could find this out too. But if they mention things, they should mention it properly since it's not clear at all. I quite like this idea by the way, I just can't back them since I refuse to get a Credit Card :)

lerouxb 14y ago
Then get some other kind of account with a Visa/Mastercard number?

jonnathanson 14y ago

I don't necessarily agree with a lot of this post. But I will admit that Kickstarter has a serious problem on its hands, namely, a growing dichotomy between its emergent user behavior (preordering) and its intended user behavior (crowdfunding). The site has gone to great lengths in recent months to stamp out the former -- even going so far as to announce "We're not a store," and to impose a lot of restrictions on project listings. IMO, these moves have only exacerbated the problem at hand. Now you've got a presumptive majority of users who still treat Kickstarter like a preordering site, but who get even fewer details about what they think they're preodering. Case in point: lots of blog posts like this one, which claim they grok the idea that they're not preordering finished goods, but nevertheless complain that they're not preordering finished goods. There's a very clear disconnect between intellectual admission ("I realize I may not actually get this item") and emotional expectation ("Where the f--- is my item???"). This is a recipe for cognitive dissonance, and it leaves a lot of very vocal users frustrated. Some of those users may be right, and others may be off base -- but they are Kickstarter's problem, regardless. Quite frankly, I don't think there's a fantastic solution to this problem. But project categorization/tiering seems like at least a halfway decent step. Kickstarter should ask its listers to choose which stage of the idea they're in: early concept, prototype, pre-sale, etc. (I'm sure they can come up with better names for these categories). And that stage would be made very clear to the users/backers from the get go. I don't think Kickstarter can continue to grow, or even last, without preordering. That just seems to be the dominant use case most people have for the site. It's here to stay. If Kickstarter shies away from it, some other crowdfunding company will claim the space and leave Kickstarter in the dust. Rather than trying to stamp it out, Kickstarter should embrace it -- but at the same time, take steps to differentiate it from true kickstarting.

jebblue 14y ago
Your post was thoughtful and articulate. I thought I'd check the site as though I were considering starting a project there. First I checked the Guidelines: http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines Part of the first Guideline says: "A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project." If I were starting a project it seems clear that the expectation is that I deliver something. I'm not clear if that agrees with your view or not I guess I'm not clear what the expectation of crowdsourcing is. Maybe it's just a buzzword.

crusso 14y ago

While we're on a Kickstarter thread, I have a GREAT idea for a Kickstarter project. It's really unique and has never been done before. I'm suggesting right here and now that someone create a Kickstarter project for a 3D printer. With such a unique and interesting offering, how could such a project not succeed? Don't forget to give me credit for the idea when you eventually see it appear on Kickstarter. [for the humor impaired, the above is sarcasm]

jermaink 14y ago

Oh no, not another 'Why I' article. This is at least the 5th on the frontpage today. I'm getting tired of these stories... HN starts to feel like being in Groundhog Day.

wsul 14y ago

Hey all, I started the company formerly known as From Holden (we're renaming), and wrote all the copy for the Kickstarter campaign. I posted a reply on Dan's blog, would love to answer any other questions or hear any other thoughts there or here! http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/11/this-is-why-im-not-backing-you-on-kickstarter/#comment-711853394 http://www.danshapiro.com/blog/2012/11/this-is-why-im-not-ba...

tg3 14y ago
In that post, your response to the risks section is that "there is literally no chance we're going to fail at delivering incredibly crafted shirts to all our backers." That is so completely disconnected from the world of reality that it shows a tremendous lack of foresight. Read literally any prospectus for companies much more proven and stable than yours and you'll see a litany of legitimate risks surrounding the business. Yours is no different. As a company who has, by definition, never done this before, your risks are quite high. What if the fabric from your supplier is inconsistent in quality, do you have another supplier? What if your estimates are off, and labor+fabric costs more than $8, will your margins allow you to deliver? What if every other large manufacturer has discovered that the cheaper labor available overseas more than offsets the increased shipping costs? What if your manufacturer has a work stoppage, do you have another manufacturer you can turn to of high quality? What if their factory burns down? What if their quality is inconsistent? What if they don't deliver finished goods on time? What if your fabric gets damaged en route, do you have insurance? I know next to nothing about clothing manufacturing, and I just listed more risks than you did. The risks section is not intended to be an exercise in braggadocio.
- wsul 14y ago
  Trey, I'm not saying there are no risks -- there are. I promise there will be hiccups along the way, anything you mentioned could happen. As an entrepreneur, I work as hard as I can to mitigate these risks by having multiple mills, sewing contractors, etc. but shit WILL happen. What I meant is that, no matter what happens, I'm going to make and deliver high quality shirts. Small hiccups will happen, but the only thing that makes us fail is me giving up, and that isn't going to happen.

jamesmcn 14y ago

Can someone explain the whole frozen jeans thing? That sounds weirdly awesome. Particularly in the summer.