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> The Maurten research team was embedded with Sawe’s team in Kenya for 32 days across six trips between last and this April. They were training his gut to absor

> The Maurten research team was embedded with Sawe’s team in Kenya for 32 days across six trips between last and this April. They were training his gut to absorb that load by mimicking race-day protocol in training. The hydrogel technology they have developed over the past 10 years now allows athletes to absorb 90–120 grams of carbs per hour without GI distress. That common knowledge, nothing revolutionary here. There are 2 types of sugar, fructose and glucose, you can max out on glucose around 60g/hour and train you guts to max out also on fucose. Personally I reached 90g/hour without training, no diarrhea or vomiting. And you know the best ? White sugar in everyone kitchen is almost perfectly 50% glucose, 50% fructose. You don't need 'advanced' gel to do that, a bottle of water with 120g of white sugar an hour. And the shoes, yeah they're light but guess what. Other competitors also have sponsors and excellent shoes, some even run bare feet and yet they don't go faster. No the real reason why he is able to run so fast is first excellent genetic, that's the common base. Secondly, excellent training, coaching. Third, his steroid/peds program is on point and his body is responding well to it. Typically for endurance runner you want profiles with low natural hematocrit so you can max out on the EPO, but there are also other considerations. For instance, are his tendons responding well to GH and other peptides ?

ragazzina 6mo ago
> Third, his steroid/peds program is on point and his body is responding well to it. Do you have any evidence of this?
- gadders 6mo ago
  We never had any for Lance Armstrong until he confessed.
- ap99 6mo ago
  His comment is more of a general commentary that east African countries are notorious for doping. Like, if we find out the top two finishers here doped very few would be surprised. That said - it's still an amazing accomplishment.
  - darrenf 6mo ago
    I’d be surprised, given how outspoken Sawe is about doping. He invited the AIU to test him before Berlin and Adidas also paid. > Determined to prove he is competing clean, Adidas provided $50,000 (£36,900) to the Athletics Integrity Unit, the sport's anti-doping body, to frequently test Sawe over a 12-month period. > That began with a reported 25 out-of-competition tests in the lead-up to Berlin in September, continuing at a similar rate as he prepared for London. > Sawe said on Monday: "It's very important to me because it gets out the doubt in my career of athletics and yesterday's performance. > "It shows Sabastian Sawe is clean. It shows running clean is good, and we can run clean and we can run faster.
    - IAmBroom 6mo ago
      I find con men are the first to protest their innocence, and even suggest well-curated "proofs" of the same. It's not evidence either way, in the arms-race of high-tech doping.
    - aucisson_masque 5mo ago
      Armstrong never failed a blood test and he was tested without being warned before hundreds of times a year. This proves nothing, absolutely nothing at all. It's just a PR move by adidas and actually it seems to be working on you.
- m348e912 6mo ago
  I have no evidence of this at all. I did thing it was interesting the demeanor of Sebastian Sawe and second place finisher Yomif Kejelcha, both of whom finished under 2 hours. If you watch Kelvin Kiptum break the world record at the 2023 Chicago Marathon and Eluid Kipchoge break the world record in the 2022 Berlin Marathon, you see the joy and exasperation of their achievement. That joy was missing in the winners of the London marathon. It's not evidence, but it's an interesting data point. Another data point: Not only did the first two finishers break two hours, the third place finisher, Jacob Kiplimo, broke the world record.
  - sireat 6mo ago
    People do have different emotional response to big achievements. Still this seemingly detached "matter of a business" look by the winners was intriguing. They are all high level athletes not Rosie Ruiz, but hopefully this record is clean.
  - aucisson_masque 5mo ago
    Interesting, I got the exact same feeling when I went to watch tour de France in mont ventoux. One of the hardest place to climb and that was after hours of cycling, and weeks of racing. Despite that, pogacar and his main competitor they looked so fresh. Like when you go do a country stroll. The others looked exhausted, some having saliva dipping of their mouth, but these 2 and maybe a few others had absolutely no sign of being tired. He would later win the race, the tour de France, and many have serious doubt on him. He regularly explodes climbing record held during EPO area by confirmed cheaters. Personally that day I got confirmation that something ain't right.
- LanceH 6mo ago
  It pains me that running, track, and cycling are "notorious" for doping, but the major sports don't test at any practical level compared to the "dirty" sports.
  - aucisson_masque 5mo ago
    Any sport, at high levels, definitely involve performance enhancing drugs. Even ping pong, Adderall can be a tremendous help. It's just that the other sports don't test as much, they are not worst or better.
    - LanceH 5mo ago
      That's my point. The major US and European sports don't really test, but the weight of PED blame falls on things like cycling and track.
- klooney 6mo ago
  There are two kinds of athletes that win global track events: - athletes from areas with bad doping enforcement (remote places in the mountains of Kenya, Jamaica) - athletes from countries with tons of surplus biomedical expertise (USA and other western countries)
_blk 6mo ago
I'm not the expert on the bio but the gel has the advantage of being consumable while running. Try drinking while running. Even at a slower pace it's hard not to spill. If you want the dosage correct you can't spill.
- aucisson_masque 5mo ago
  Well I assumed that during marathon you have places where you stop and drink. Usually there are even volunteers giving out water, you can have someone from your staff giving you a bottle of 1l of water-sugar. But maybe I'm mistaken and they dont do that for marathon.
  - _blk 5mo ago
    Most people do, yes but in this case you don't want to stop on a sub 2 is the point.
aembleton 6mo ago
> You don't need 'advanced' gel to do that, a bottle of water with 120g of white sugar an hour. Did you carry all of these bottles on a marathon? Did you have to stop to get them out of your bag? How did you find drinking whilst running? I find gels much more compact and for the amount of time I need to run one - over 4 hours there's a lot of weight I need to carry. I can store a lot of them up front in my running vest and keep going.
- aucisson_masque 5mo ago
  > I find gels much more compact and for the amount of time I need to run one - over 4 hours there's a lot of weight I need to carry. I can store a lot of them up front in my running vest and keep going. I believe he had people from his staff handing him gels and water at designated point in his race. He wouldn't have to carry it all. And I don't get why my solution of water + sugar is so bad. You're still going to drink water, you can't just eat gels during the whole race. You might as well add sugar to the water that you are already going to drink anyway, this way you don't need to carry the gel.
  - aembleton 5mo ago
    You get given water during races, and you don't need a support team for that to happen. There are people handing them out at set locations, so there's no need to carry all of that with you. You often get gels too and its worth training with that brand that they are giving out so that your gut is ready for it, but you can't rely on them because they do sometimes run out. I've never seen them run out of water though, and it would be a lot to carry for a marathon.
pfix 6mo ago
> That common knowledge, nothing revolutionary here. I've never read about that. So it's not "common knowledge" - except maybe in the running community. I like your comment for putting some facts into place (how far you can go with common options). But as I never heard of this before, I have no idea how common it actually is and the effects and the science around it, what research does say to this, how and why this is used in other sports - or why not.
zackify 6mo ago
I agree with you. I used maurten 160, 320, and the gels years ago. Now I just throw honey into water on my runs. It doesn't upset me even though maurten does feel a little better, its worth saving tons of money over buying maurten
boringg 6mo ago
Pushing up to and over 100 is the challenge. If i remember right 90 is 60-30 (gluc and fruc) and the upper limit after that GI distress. You a cyclist or have you been doing that from running? From homemade concoctions… you can use maltodextrin for pure glucose.
- aucisson_masque 5mo ago
  Yeah 100 to 120 is where you start to need to get your gut used to. I don't remember the exact ratio too, but just saying that it's nothing new and it doesn't explain in itself SAWE performance. Nor the light shoe.
whycome 6mo ago
> The hydrogel technology they have developed At what point is this just a performance enhancing “drug” — what makes something a drug?
- aucisson_masque 5mo ago
  Some say that protein or creatin is a drug. Some say it's testosterone, but we already got natural testosterone in our body. Just like creatin. Maybe a drug is at the point where you put in your body something that it doesn't produce naturally. Like nandrolone, clenbuterol. Honestly I thought I had a clear view too but the more I think about it the more I realize that we are a bit hypocrite.
adrian_b 5mo ago
You certainly do not need an advanced gel, but sugar solution is not the only alternative. You can make easily and cheaply at home a gel by boiling in water a mixture of corn starch with fructose. The best way is to do this for a few minutes in a microwave oven, because it is fast and reproducible. This has the advantage that it does not feel so sweet as a sugar solution, which becomes unpleasant in too great quantities. I am not aware of any other difference in the commercial gels, except that those use pre-digested starch, whose long molecules are broken in shorter molecules, for a decreased time until absorption. I doubt that this short absorption time is always an advantage, because it leads to wider fluctuations in the blood glucose level during periodic feeding.

ragazzina 6mo ago

> Third, his steroid/peds program is on point and his body is responding well to it. Do you have any evidence of this?

gadders 6mo ago
We never had any for Lance Armstrong until he confessed.
ap99 6mo ago
His comment is more of a general commentary that east African countries are notorious for doping. Like, if we find out the top two finishers here doped very few would be surprised. That said - it's still an amazing accomplishment.
- darrenf 6mo ago
  I’d be surprised, given how outspoken Sawe is about doping. He invited the AIU to test him before Berlin and Adidas also paid. > Determined to prove he is competing clean, Adidas provided $50,000 (£36,900) to the Athletics Integrity Unit, the sport's anti-doping body, to frequently test Sawe over a 12-month period. > That began with a reported 25 out-of-competition tests in the lead-up to Berlin in September, continuing at a similar rate as he prepared for London. > Sawe said on Monday: "It's very important to me because it gets out the doubt in my career of athletics and yesterday's performance. > "It shows Sabastian Sawe is clean. It shows running clean is good, and we can run clean and we can run faster.
  - IAmBroom 6mo ago
    I find con men are the first to protest their innocence, and even suggest well-curated "proofs" of the same. It's not evidence either way, in the arms-race of high-tech doping.
  - aucisson_masque 5mo ago
    Armstrong never failed a blood test and he was tested without being warned before hundreds of times a year. This proves nothing, absolutely nothing at all. It's just a PR move by adidas and actually it seems to be working on you.
m348e912 6mo ago
I have no evidence of this at all. I did thing it was interesting the demeanor of Sebastian Sawe and second place finisher Yomif Kejelcha, both of whom finished under 2 hours. If you watch Kelvin Kiptum break the world record at the 2023 Chicago Marathon and Eluid Kipchoge break the world record in the 2022 Berlin Marathon, you see the joy and exasperation of their achievement. That joy was missing in the winners of the London marathon. It's not evidence, but it's an interesting data point. Another data point: Not only did the first two finishers break two hours, the third place finisher, Jacob Kiplimo, broke the world record.
- sireat 6mo ago
  People do have different emotional response to big achievements. Still this seemingly detached "matter of a business" look by the winners was intriguing. They are all high level athletes not Rosie Ruiz, but hopefully this record is clean.
- aucisson_masque 5mo ago
  Interesting, I got the exact same feeling when I went to watch tour de France in mont ventoux. One of the hardest place to climb and that was after hours of cycling, and weeks of racing. Despite that, pogacar and his main competitor they looked so fresh. Like when you go do a country stroll. The others looked exhausted, some having saliva dipping of their mouth, but these 2 and maybe a few others had absolutely no sign of being tired. He would later win the race, the tour de France, and many have serious doubt on him. He regularly explodes climbing record held during EPO area by confirmed cheaters. Personally that day I got confirmation that something ain't right.
LanceH 6mo ago
It pains me that running, track, and cycling are "notorious" for doping, but the major sports don't test at any practical level compared to the "dirty" sports.
- aucisson_masque 5mo ago
  Any sport, at high levels, definitely involve performance enhancing drugs. Even ping pong, Adderall can be a tremendous help. It's just that the other sports don't test as much, they are not worst or better.
  - LanceH 5mo ago
    That's my point. The major US and European sports don't really test, but the weight of PED blame falls on things like cycling and track.
klooney 6mo ago
There are two kinds of athletes that win global track events: - athletes from areas with bad doping enforcement (remote places in the mountains of Kenya, Jamaica) - athletes from countries with tons of surplus biomedical expertise (USA and other western countries)

_blk 6mo ago

I'm not the expert on the bio but the gel has the advantage of being consumable while running. Try drinking while running. Even at a slower pace it's hard not to spill. If you want the dosage correct you can't spill.

aucisson_masque 5mo ago
Well I assumed that during marathon you have places where you stop and drink. Usually there are even volunteers giving out water, you can have someone from your staff giving you a bottle of 1l of water-sugar. But maybe I'm mistaken and they dont do that for marathon.
- _blk 5mo ago
  Most people do, yes but in this case you don't want to stop on a sub 2 is the point.

aembleton 6mo ago

> You don't need 'advanced' gel to do that, a bottle of water with 120g of white sugar an hour. Did you carry all of these bottles on a marathon? Did you have to stop to get them out of your bag? How did you find drinking whilst running? I find gels much more compact and for the amount of time I need to run one - over 4 hours there's a lot of weight I need to carry. I can store a lot of them up front in my running vest and keep going.

aucisson_masque 5mo ago
> I find gels much more compact and for the amount of time I need to run one - over 4 hours there's a lot of weight I need to carry. I can store a lot of them up front in my running vest and keep going. I believe he had people from his staff handing him gels and water at designated point in his race. He wouldn't have to carry it all. And I don't get why my solution of water + sugar is so bad. You're still going to drink water, you can't just eat gels during the whole race. You might as well add sugar to the water that you are already going to drink anyway, this way you don't need to carry the gel.
- aembleton 5mo ago
  You get given water during races, and you don't need a support team for that to happen. There are people handing them out at set locations, so there's no need to carry all of that with you. You often get gels too and its worth training with that brand that they are giving out so that your gut is ready for it, but you can't rely on them because they do sometimes run out. I've never seen them run out of water though, and it would be a lot to carry for a marathon.

pfix 6mo ago

> That common knowledge, nothing revolutionary here. I've never read about that. So it's not "common knowledge" - except maybe in the running community. I like your comment for putting some facts into place (how far you can go with common options). But as I never heard of this before, I have no idea how common it actually is and the effects and the science around it, what research does say to this, how and why this is used in other sports - or why not.

zackify 6mo ago

I agree with you. I used maurten 160, 320, and the gels years ago. Now I just throw honey into water on my runs. It doesn't upset me even though maurten does feel a little better, its worth saving tons of money over buying maurten

boringg 6mo ago

Pushing up to and over 100 is the challenge. If i remember right 90 is 60-30 (gluc and fruc) and the upper limit after that GI distress. You a cyclist or have you been doing that from running? From homemade concoctions… you can use maltodextrin for pure glucose.

aucisson_masque 5mo ago
Yeah 100 to 120 is where you start to need to get your gut used to. I don't remember the exact ratio too, but just saying that it's nothing new and it doesn't explain in itself SAWE performance. Nor the light shoe.

whycome 6mo ago

> The hydrogel technology they have developed At what point is this just a performance enhancing “drug” — what makes something a drug?

aucisson_masque 5mo ago
Some say that protein or creatin is a drug. Some say it's testosterone, but we already got natural testosterone in our body. Just like creatin. Maybe a drug is at the point where you put in your body something that it doesn't produce naturally. Like nandrolone, clenbuterol. Honestly I thought I had a clear view too but the more I think about it the more I realize that we are a bit hypocrite.

adrian_b 5mo ago

You certainly do not need an advanced gel, but sugar solution is not the only alternative. You can make easily and cheaply at home a gel by boiling in water a mixture of corn starch with fructose. The best way is to do this for a few minutes in a microwave oven, because it is fast and reproducible. This has the advantage that it does not feel so sweet as a sugar solution, which becomes unpleasant in too great quantities. I am not aware of any other difference in the commercial gels, except that those use pre-digested starch, whose long molecules are broken in shorter molecules, for a decreased time until absorption. I doubt that this short absorption time is always an advantage, because it leads to wider fluctuations in the blood glucose level during periodic feeding.