4 ms·

> I struggled with Guideline 4.2 when I tried to publish an app showing the bell schedule and other local information for the neighborhood school. Why would yo

by KPGv2 6mo ago

> I struggled with Guideline 4.2 when I tried to publish an app showing the bell schedule and other local information for the neighborhood school. Why would you not just make this a webpage, and then the users could add it to home page as if it were an app? no Apple review necessary then. What does it being an app give you besides bureaucratic headaches?

ZeWaka 6mo ago
Users are /very/ not used to how to install PWAs to their home screen. Also, in the EU it just opens the site up in your browser, no lack of browser UI like you'd expect. Apple is wonderful. Edit: It seems I never got the news they reversed course on that particular idea of theirs.
- sshine 6mo ago
  I’m in the EU, and adding a website to Home Screen does hide the browser feel. Maybe this experience is different in different European jurisdictions. Your point about users not being used to this is very real. I didn’t know you could until some app author showed me. It really is as simple as sharing a link or copy-pasting, but if you don’t know it’s a think, it disappears into obscurity in the menus.
  - ZeWaka 6mo ago
    Ah, it seems they reversed course after a few betas. There's still this funny business: https://developer.apple.com/support/alt-distribution-ux-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/alt-distribution-ux-in-t... & https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu
- Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
  I live in the EU and just wrote my first PWA and that‘s not true, there is (almost) NO browser ui/ux. No url bar, no back/forward, no tabs, nor translation, no menu bar, no loading indicator, just… pressing down on a link shows the target url and offers open, copy link, add to reading list and share -which honestly looks like a weird oversight.
- wolvoleo 6mo ago
  I really hate it when the browser UI gets hidden. It loses me several great features like the ability to open multiple tabs. Or have a bookmark directly to a subpage. Unfortunately some other features are only available to PWA do it's a tradeoff either way.
biztos 6mo ago
1. Many people are more comfortable with apps, and don't really "surf the web," and for such people "a webpage" is at best a hassle. 2. Those people and many more besides have no idea what "add it to home page" even means. It being an app gives those people an experience that matches their normal use of technology, and I think they're probably a majority of users. Plus, if the parent feels like making an app instead of a web page, who is Apple (or you, or I) to discourage that?
- tmpfile 6mo ago
  > 2. Those people and many more besides have no idea what "add it to home page" even means. If Apple supported the beforeinstallprompt event (available in Chrome since 2015) then people would have same experience as installing app [0]. Instead, you must create a wrapper around webpage and submit thru App Store. [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/beforeinstallprompt_event https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/befo...
ventana 6mo ago
The main driver for making it into an app and not just a web page was the need to send push notifications. Of course, I just needed it for myself: hey, it's time to stop working and start driving to school to pick up the kid – "notify me 30 minutes before the last period ends" given that the schedule is different every day; then I just shared it with other parents. There is a web version (it's Flutter so it was easy to make one), but parents use the app much more often.
- Tepix 6mo ago
  If you add a web page (a PWA) to the home screen, it can do push messages on iOS since a couple of years.
  - pastel8739 6mo ago
    nobody knows how to do this; they do know how to install an app
    - DANmode 6mo ago
      They make it difficult to find even if you’re looking for it. The Apple story on PWA is “Fuck ‘em until our last breath.”
  - abustamam 6mo ago
    The average person doesn't know this, nor what a PWA is. Source: consulted for a company that had a PWA and paid me a lot of money to make it a native app because their users didn't know how to use the PWA.
    - Tepix 6mo ago
      We have to thank Apple for that. Look how they hid the option to add a PWA to the home screen. Instead of placing the option next to "Add to bookmarks" after you press "..." (especially if it recognized the page as a PWA!), you have to choose "Share" (which makes no sense!) and then scroll up (at the same time it's non-obvious that you can even scroll up) past the option "add to bookmarks" (again) and then pick the 5th option "add to home screen". Very obvious dark pattern at work here.
suprfnk 6mo ago
I also have a small private app that technically could have been a PWA. It’s not a PWA because the UX is just always inferior. Even though we’ve come really far in browser UIs, the browser is still very clunky compared to the smoothness of a native app. And I like nice to use software.

by KPGv2 6mo ago

ZeWaka 6mo ago

Users are /very/ not used to how to install PWAs to their home screen. Also, in the EU it just opens the site up in your browser, no lack of browser UI like you'd expect. Apple is wonderful. Edit: It seems I never got the news they reversed course on that particular idea of theirs.

sshine 6mo ago
I’m in the EU, and adding a website to Home Screen does hide the browser feel. Maybe this experience is different in different European jurisdictions. Your point about users not being used to this is very real. I didn’t know you could until some app author showed me. It really is as simple as sharing a link or copy-pasting, but if you don’t know it’s a think, it disappears into obscurity in the menus.
- ZeWaka 6mo ago
  Ah, it seems they reversed course after a few betas. There's still this funny business: https://developer.apple.com/support/alt-distribution-ux-in-the-eu/ https://developer.apple.com/support/alt-distribution-ux-in-t... & https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu
Traubenfuchs 6mo ago
I live in the EU and just wrote my first PWA and that‘s not true, there is (almost) NO browser ui/ux. No url bar, no back/forward, no tabs, nor translation, no menu bar, no loading indicator, just… pressing down on a link shows the target url and offers open, copy link, add to reading list and share -which honestly looks like a weird oversight.
wolvoleo 6mo ago
I really hate it when the browser UI gets hidden. It loses me several great features like the ability to open multiple tabs. Or have a bookmark directly to a subpage. Unfortunately some other features are only available to PWA do it's a tradeoff either way.

biztos 6mo ago

1. Many people are more comfortable with apps, and don't really "surf the web," and for such people "a webpage" is at best a hassle. 2. Those people and many more besides have no idea what "add it to home page" even means. It being an app gives those people an experience that matches their normal use of technology, and I think they're probably a majority of users. Plus, if the parent feels like making an app instead of a web page, who is Apple (or you, or I) to discourage that?

tmpfile 6mo ago
> 2. Those people and many more besides have no idea what "add it to home page" even means. If Apple supported the beforeinstallprompt event (available in Chrome since 2015) then people would have same experience as installing app [0]. Instead, you must create a wrapper around webpage and submit thru App Store. [0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/beforeinstallprompt_event https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/befo...

ventana 6mo ago

The main driver for making it into an app and not just a web page was the need to send push notifications. Of course, I just needed it for myself: hey, it's time to stop working and start driving to school to pick up the kid – "notify me 30 minutes before the last period ends" given that the schedule is different every day; then I just shared it with other parents. There is a web version (it's Flutter so it was easy to make one), but parents use the app much more often.

Tepix 6mo ago
If you add a web page (a PWA) to the home screen, it can do push messages on iOS since a couple of years.
- pastel8739 6mo ago
  nobody knows how to do this; they do know how to install an app
  - DANmode 6mo ago
    They make it difficult to find even if you’re looking for it. The Apple story on PWA is “Fuck ‘em until our last breath.”
- abustamam 6mo ago
  The average person doesn't know this, nor what a PWA is. Source: consulted for a company that had a PWA and paid me a lot of money to make it a native app because their users didn't know how to use the PWA.
  - Tepix 6mo ago
    We have to thank Apple for that. Look how they hid the option to add a PWA to the home screen. Instead of placing the option next to "Add to bookmarks" after you press "..." (especially if it recognized the page as a PWA!), you have to choose "Share" (which makes no sense!) and then scroll up (at the same time it's non-obvious that you can even scroll up) past the option "add to bookmarks" (again) and then pick the 5th option "add to home screen". Very obvious dark pattern at work here.

suprfnk 6mo ago

I also have a small private app that technically could have been a PWA. It’s not a PWA because the UX is just always inferior. Even though we’ve come really far in browser UIs, the browser is still very clunky compared to the smoothness of a native app. And I like nice to use software.