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>how is it safer than to stop and proceed when there is no traffic across? Generally, on a bike you want to be predictable. If you do something weird, like not

>how is it safer than to stop and proceed when there is no traffic across? Generally, on a bike you want to be predictable. If you do something weird, like not going when it's your turn, you're increasing your risk. And in many situations if you wait for there to be no cars at a stop sign, you're going to end up holding up cars behind you and be on the receiving end of road rage, or drivers behaving recklessly to get around you. Plus you may be waiting literally hours for all the traffic to dissipate, and I prefer to be home before sunset because riding at night introduces other safety issues. Anecdotally I've never felt at risk of being t-boned when doing an Idaho stop, but it happens regularly when I do a complete stop (in part because it's unpredictable - drivers don't come to a complete stop at the line so they misbehave and don't know how to respond when they see a cyclist stop). Beyond my anecdata, there's plenty of more rigorous studies showing the benefits of the Idaho stop.

pandaman 6mo ago
>Generally, on a bike you want to be predictable. If you do something weird, like not going when it's your turn, you're increasing your risk. Absolutely agree. As same as going when it's not your turn. But, first and foremost, you should not be going across a moving vehicle. Even another bike. Just falling off your bike can cause pretty serious trauma. Why do this? >Plus you may be waiting literally hours for all the traffic to dissipate, and I prefer to be home before sunset because riding at night introduces other safety issues. I don't know where in California you live that nobody stops at the stop signs, but I lived in LA and cars generally stop at those. You literally need to wait few seconds for the cars to to stop and proceed in most cities in the US. >Anecdotally I've never felt at risk of being t-boned when doing an Idaho stop, but it happens regularly when I do a complete stop (in part because it's unpredictable - drivers don't come to a complete stop at the line so they misbehave and don't know how to respond when they see a cyclist stop). I know that feeling. Like people riding against traffic feel safer because they see approaching cars yet regularly get t-boned by the cars not expecting anything coming at them against traffic. >Beyond my anecdata, there's plenty of more rigorous studies showing the benefits of the Idaho stop Like what? I tried to search again and found this [1] apparently Idaho is not even in top half of the states in cyclist safety (or "friendliness" whatever that means). 1. https://bikeleague.org/bfa/states/state-report-cards/ https://bikeleague.org/bfa/states/state-report-cards/
- Rebelgecko 6mo ago
  >I don't know where in California you live that nobody stops at the stop signs, but I lived in LA and cars generally stop at those When did you live in LA? Especially coming out of COVID lockdowns, what you're saying is not consistent with my daily experience. It's relatively uncommon for cars to actually stop (to the point that when Waymo initially rolled out in LA, people would get mad and honk at them for stopping!) I tried to keep a count on my commute today. I think I saw 3 cars come to a complete stop (and in each case it was because someone was already in the intersection). On the flip side, dozens of cars blew through stop signs (and red lights!). It may get garbled by Youtube compression, but here's a pretty representative clip of 3 drivers running a stop sign back-to-back-to-back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z6fFnDzfv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z6fFnDzfv8
  - pandaman 6mo ago
    I lived in West LA and Santa Monica. And, as your clip shows, drivers will blow stop signs regardless if there is a bicycle or not. Imagine you tried to enter that intersection from the cross street on a bike without stopping, obscured by the fence? Even at that speed you'd could receive some heavy damage.

pandaman 6mo ago

>Generally, on a bike you want to be predictable. If you do something weird, like not going when it's your turn, you're increasing your risk. Absolutely agree. As same as going when it's not your turn. But, first and foremost, you should not be going across a moving vehicle. Even another bike. Just falling off your bike can cause pretty serious trauma. Why do this? >Plus you may be waiting literally hours for all the traffic to dissipate, and I prefer to be home before sunset because riding at night introduces other safety issues. I don't know where in California you live that nobody stops at the stop signs, but I lived in LA and cars generally stop at those. You literally need to wait few seconds for the cars to to stop and proceed in most cities in the US. >Anecdotally I've never felt at risk of being t-boned when doing an Idaho stop, but it happens regularly when I do a complete stop (in part because it's unpredictable - drivers don't come to a complete stop at the line so they misbehave and don't know how to respond when they see a cyclist stop). I know that feeling. Like people riding against traffic feel safer because they see approaching cars yet regularly get t-boned by the cars not expecting anything coming at them against traffic. >Beyond my anecdata, there's plenty of more rigorous studies showing the benefits of the Idaho stop Like what? I tried to search again and found this [1] apparently Idaho is not even in top half of the states in cyclist safety (or "friendliness" whatever that means). 1. https://bikeleague.org/bfa/states/state-report-cards/ https://bikeleague.org/bfa/states/state-report-cards/

Rebelgecko 6mo ago
>I don't know where in California you live that nobody stops at the stop signs, but I lived in LA and cars generally stop at those When did you live in LA? Especially coming out of COVID lockdowns, what you're saying is not consistent with my daily experience. It's relatively uncommon for cars to actually stop (to the point that when Waymo initially rolled out in LA, people would get mad and honk at them for stopping!) I tried to keep a count on my commute today. I think I saw 3 cars come to a complete stop (and in each case it was because someone was already in the intersection). On the flip side, dozens of cars blew through stop signs (and red lights!). It may get garbled by Youtube compression, but here's a pretty representative clip of 3 drivers running a stop sign back-to-back-to-back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z6fFnDzfv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z6fFnDzfv8
- pandaman 6mo ago
  I lived in West LA and Santa Monica. And, as your clip shows, drivers will blow stop signs regardless if there is a bicycle or not. Imagine you tried to enter that intersection from the cross street on a bike without stopping, obscured by the fence? Even at that speed you'd could receive some heavy damage.