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I've run all 3 major OSes before. MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works. My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patche

by mapleleaf1921 5mo ago

I've run all 3 major OSes before. MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works. My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. My windows days were plagued with battery issues. I feel like most Linux ricers wishs for a MacOS-like experience, except with more customisation. (Which is entirely possible now with the ricing on Mac)

TingPing 5mo ago
In my personal experience macOS is fine but updates are often buggy or regress performance. Linux has just been the more polished option. Plus it just has a nicer desktop and apps.
- alemanek 5mo ago
  I stay 1 major version behind with MacOS. If you do that you should have a pretty stable experience. You still get all the security patches but skip most bugs/regressions.
  - jijijijij 5mo ago
    Linux got this philosophy made distribution called Debian. What kind of argument is that for OS experience and stability?
  - albedoa 5mo ago
    I stay 0 major versions behind with macOS and have a pretty stable experience.
OsrsNeedsf2P 5mo ago
Ricing is big, but I also like the hackability and development friendly environment of Linux that isn't there on Macbooks (been running MacOS as a secondary for ~5yrs now)
dangus 5mo ago
Liquid Ass enters the chat, Apple can’t even make rounded corners anymore. I was burned by the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard, and once Liquid Ass was announced I knew it was time to get out. Sold my MacBook Pro M2 Pro, which has a stupid gigantic notch that blocks the menu bar items with no built-in mechanism for getting to them when they overflow. Now I’m on a Framework 13” and I’ve had zero issues with Linux. Everything just works. KDE Plasma is way more customizable than macOS or Windows. I’m finally able to ditch slow Homebrew and use a real package manager. I can finally play light PC games on my laptop without dealing with streaming or Crossover. My preorder is in for the Framework 13 Pro, which looks to get even closer to delivering a MacBook Pro for Linux. Meanwhile, Apple hasn’t changed their chassis design in 5 years, while Framework updates their hardware constantly while maintaining cross-compatibility. A company with less than 500 employees is catching up to a trillion dollar corporation. I’ve already got my fully modular LPCAMM RAM delivered and ready with no Apple tax. I’ll get better battery life watching YouTube videos than a MacBook Pro and the graphics are just as powerful as the M5 base chip. And if something breaks I won’t have to deal with the nightmare I went through with my 2016 MacBook Pro.
graemep 5mo ago
Not a problem I have had on Linux. Some people seem to get better battery life with Windows than with Linux. Most users on any OSes are not ricers. Most of my customisation is functional - panels and widgets placed for practical reasons. A lot of people do not seem to customise at all, or barely.
ifwinterco 5mo ago
MacOS is also optimised for M series chips in a way that realistically no linux distribution ever will be. Definitely good to have the option, but you'll most likely never get quite the same performance or battery life on linux
exe34 5mo ago
> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. Is that on Mac hardware? I run a 14 year old Mac Book Air, and it works flawlessly with the latest Nixos, and has done for the last 11 years. If you have issues on random PCs, it's because there are an enormous variety of them out there, with all kinds of incompatibilities that have to be worked around. On Mac hardware, there tends to be a more restricted number of variants, and after a few years, Linux becomes rock solid on them. So the OP is correct, Linux on Mac hardware is the best combo.
- CamouflagedKiwi 5mo ago
  A 14 year old Macbook Air is an Intel Mac, AFAIK most hardware is pretty well supported. M series Macs are still very much a work in progress. I'm typing this on one, in Linux, so plenty of things work, but not for example USB-C output to an external display, and a lot of the processor power level / suspend stuff is still not fully there so battery life is quite a bit worse, especially when suspended. I think the situation is rather worse on the latest generation hardware, too.
- normie3000 5mo ago
  Did wifi work out of the box? I really struggled with a 2013 Air.
  - exe34 5mo ago
    I think I might have used a usb ethernet to install it? It was 2017 the last (and first) time I had to re-install, so I don't remember.
rglullis 5mo ago
> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. This is the kind of dated argument that really makes me dismiss most of the critics. I was running xubuntu as my main desktop since 2010 at least, switched to Debian + nix + XFCE in 2022 and switched to full-on nixOS in 2024. I never had issues with audio then and had to go out of my way to "break" audio on NixOS when I wanted to try pipewire instead of pulse. > feel like most Linux ricers wises for a MacOS-like experience I've put together a Hackintosh once, tried for a few weeks as the daily driver. Aside from being able to use tools that dealt with real-time audio processing, there was nothing else I wanted to copy or bring to my Linux system. It cemented my opinion that most software developers that keep touting the "superiority of MacOS" never gave a fair shot at Linux on decent hardware and were just rationalizing their prior choice.
- eightysixfour 5mo ago
  Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login. I worked on it for a day, still couldn’t get any desktop except a terminal.Tried a different distro, it booted but no matter what resolution or refresh rate, the display showed severe artifacts when scrolling. Tried to fix it for a few days, gave up. I am not a Linux novice, I have been using every major OS for decades at this point, but I’ll be damned if I didn’t install Windows, decrapify it, and everything just worked. You can say I should have done more research on hardware compatibility or whatever, but I didn’t have to for Windows. And I like how you complain most devs never give Linux a fair shot on decent hardware right after describing that you MacOS experience is a hackintosh. That makes a lot of sense.
  - rglullis 5mo ago
    > And I like how you complain most devs never give Linux a fair shot on decent hardware right after describing that you MacOS experience is a hackintosh. I'm not saying that I was expecting to run a Hackintosh and suddenly get the advantages of Apple hardware. I am doing a pure software-to-software comparison. There was no application in the MacOS desktop that made me feel like I was missing out on something. Of all the tools that I am used to use - emacs + developer tools, email clients, messaging clients, media players, media managers, browsers, the occasional office productivity - none of the MacOS counterparts had any significant advantage over what I have in a Linux desktop.
Escapado 5mo ago
"entirely possible" is a bit of a stretch. You can install some hacky WM and sketchybar but system settings, workspace three finger scroll speed, the finder app, window chrome, login screen etc are not something that can easily be changed. And the default apps are really not that great for power users. Calendar, Mail and Finder are all slow, dumbed down and only very superficially customizable. I daily drive an M2 Pro MBP and I was running a Linux desktop up until 2 years ago and I felt like there were barely any limits to customizing the latter while I have to fight macOS at every step if I want to do something that apple does not want me to do.
dwedge 5mo ago
I use macos because of the battery life and because I want a Linux like experience without wondering if some weird software a company update forces on us will work, like citrix desktop or their random vpn client. But for someone who spends most of their time in the terminal, and the rest of the time in a browser, macos has some really annoying quirks especially when it comes to window management
Matl 5mo ago
Can macOS snap windows to the side yet without external plugins?
- saagarjha 5mo ago
  Yes.
  - Matl 5mo ago
    Oh, nice, when I last tried it about the M1 timeframe, it still didn't. What that convinced me of is that macOS is just not for power users.
    - saagarjha 5mo ago
      They added it a few years back
eikenberry 5mo ago
The difficult thing with Linux has always been finding well supported hardware. People always try to get it running on whatever random collection of hardware they have on hand and then are surprised that they have some problems. If you buy with Linux in mind you can get hardware that just works.
nine_k 5mo ago
I'm likely not "most Linux ricers", but as a long-term desktop Linux user, I'm very bothered when I have to use macOS GUI, and explicitly want a non-macOS experience. (This is why I avoid Gnome, for instance.)
ezst 5mo ago
> MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works. MacOS is sometimes so weird and inconsistent that it's hard to tell whether it's a bug of Apple usual's "you are not smart/cool-enough to understand" kind of feature.
apatheticonion 5mo ago
I agree that MacOS is more polished. However overall, Linux is a better complete package - especially for power users, gamers and engineers. Linux GUIs are _fine enough_ though the jank is still present. The good news is they will get better with more users entering the chat. The thing to note is that, we don't want to confuse "it's not as good right now" with "It's bad so I will never use it" because that signals a lack of interest. There is a non-zero chance that Apple could be compelled to support it if enough people express interest (historically, they have with bootcamp). Competition is good, even if the competition is bad right now. We must encourage it.

TingPing 5mo ago

In my personal experience macOS is fine but updates are often buggy or regress performance. Linux has just been the more polished option. Plus it just has a nicer desktop and apps.

alemanek 5mo ago
I stay 1 major version behind with MacOS. If you do that you should have a pretty stable experience. You still get all the security patches but skip most bugs/regressions.
- jijijijij 5mo ago
  Linux got this philosophy made distribution called Debian. What kind of argument is that for OS experience and stability?
- albedoa 5mo ago
  I stay 0 major versions behind with macOS and have a pretty stable experience.

OsrsNeedsf2P 5mo ago

Ricing is big, but I also like the hackability and development friendly environment of Linux that isn't there on Macbooks (been running MacOS as a secondary for ~5yrs now)

dangus 5mo ago

Liquid Ass enters the chat, Apple can’t even make rounded corners anymore. I was burned by the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard, and once Liquid Ass was announced I knew it was time to get out. Sold my MacBook Pro M2 Pro, which has a stupid gigantic notch that blocks the menu bar items with no built-in mechanism for getting to them when they overflow. Now I’m on a Framework 13” and I’ve had zero issues with Linux. Everything just works. KDE Plasma is way more customizable than macOS or Windows. I’m finally able to ditch slow Homebrew and use a real package manager. I can finally play light PC games on my laptop without dealing with streaming or Crossover. My preorder is in for the Framework 13 Pro, which looks to get even closer to delivering a MacBook Pro for Linux. Meanwhile, Apple hasn’t changed their chassis design in 5 years, while Framework updates their hardware constantly while maintaining cross-compatibility. A company with less than 500 employees is catching up to a trillion dollar corporation. I’ve already got my fully modular LPCAMM RAM delivered and ready with no Apple tax. I’ll get better battery life watching YouTube videos than a MacBook Pro and the graphics are just as powerful as the M5 base chip. And if something breaks I won’t have to deal with the nightmare I went through with my 2016 MacBook Pro.

graemep 5mo ago

Not a problem I have had on Linux. Some people seem to get better battery life with Windows than with Linux. Most users on any OSes are not ricers. Most of my customisation is functional - panels and widgets placed for practical reasons. A lot of people do not seem to customise at all, or barely.

ifwinterco 5mo ago

MacOS is also optimised for M series chips in a way that realistically no linux distribution ever will be. Definitely good to have the option, but you'll most likely never get quite the same performance or battery life on linux

exe34 5mo ago

> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. Is that on Mac hardware? I run a 14 year old Mac Book Air, and it works flawlessly with the latest Nixos, and has done for the last 11 years. If you have issues on random PCs, it's because there are an enormous variety of them out there, with all kinds of incompatibilities that have to be worked around. On Mac hardware, there tends to be a more restricted number of variants, and after a few years, Linux becomes rock solid on them. So the OP is correct, Linux on Mac hardware is the best combo.

CamouflagedKiwi 5mo ago
A 14 year old Macbook Air is an Intel Mac, AFAIK most hardware is pretty well supported. M series Macs are still very much a work in progress. I'm typing this on one, in Linux, so plenty of things work, but not for example USB-C output to an external display, and a lot of the processor power level / suspend stuff is still not fully there so battery life is quite a bit worse, especially when suspended. I think the situation is rather worse on the latest generation hardware, too.
normie3000 5mo ago
Did wifi work out of the box? I really struggled with a 2013 Air.
- exe34 5mo ago
  I think I might have used a usb ethernet to install it? It was 2017 the last (and first) time I had to re-install, so I don't remember.

rglullis 5mo ago

> My variosu Linux adventures have always resulted in doing random patches for audio or screen incompatibility. This is the kind of dated argument that really makes me dismiss most of the critics. I was running xubuntu as my main desktop since 2010 at least, switched to Debian + nix + XFCE in 2022 and switched to full-on nixOS in 2024. I never had issues with audio then and had to go out of my way to "break" audio on NixOS when I wanted to try pipewire instead of pulse. > feel like most Linux ricers wises for a MacOS-like experience I've put together a Hackintosh once, tried for a few weeks as the daily driver. Aside from being able to use tools that dealt with real-time audio processing, there was nothing else I wanted to copy or bring to my Linux system. It cemented my opinion that most software developers that keep touting the "superiority of MacOS" never gave a fair shot at Linux on decent hardware and were just rationalizing their prior choice.

eightysixfour 5mo ago
Earlier this year I built a new desktop and installed my normal Linux distro and the screen wouldn’t work after login. I worked on it for a day, still couldn’t get any desktop except a terminal.Tried a different distro, it booted but no matter what resolution or refresh rate, the display showed severe artifacts when scrolling. Tried to fix it for a few days, gave up. I am not a Linux novice, I have been using every major OS for decades at this point, but I’ll be damned if I didn’t install Windows, decrapify it, and everything just worked. You can say I should have done more research on hardware compatibility or whatever, but I didn’t have to for Windows. And I like how you complain most devs never give Linux a fair shot on decent hardware right after describing that you MacOS experience is a hackintosh. That makes a lot of sense.
- rglullis 5mo ago
  > And I like how you complain most devs never give Linux a fair shot on decent hardware right after describing that you MacOS experience is a hackintosh. I'm not saying that I was expecting to run a Hackintosh and suddenly get the advantages of Apple hardware. I am doing a pure software-to-software comparison. There was no application in the MacOS desktop that made me feel like I was missing out on something. Of all the tools that I am used to use - emacs + developer tools, email clients, messaging clients, media players, media managers, browsers, the occasional office productivity - none of the MacOS counterparts had any significant advantage over what I have in a Linux desktop.

Escapado 5mo ago

"entirely possible" is a bit of a stretch. You can install some hacky WM and sketchybar but system settings, workspace three finger scroll speed, the finder app, window chrome, login screen etc are not something that can easily be changed. And the default apps are really not that great for power users. Calendar, Mail and Finder are all slow, dumbed down and only very superficially customizable. I daily drive an M2 Pro MBP and I was running a Linux desktop up until 2 years ago and I felt like there were barely any limits to customizing the latter while I have to fight macOS at every step if I want to do something that apple does not want me to do.

dwedge 5mo ago

I use macos because of the battery life and because I want a Linux like experience without wondering if some weird software a company update forces on us will work, like citrix desktop or their random vpn client. But for someone who spends most of their time in the terminal, and the rest of the time in a browser, macos has some really annoying quirks especially when it comes to window management

Matl 5mo ago

Can macOS snap windows to the side yet without external plugins?

saagarjha 5mo ago
Yes.
- Matl 5mo ago
  Oh, nice, when I last tried it about the M1 timeframe, it still didn't. What that convinced me of is that macOS is just not for power users.
  - saagarjha 5mo ago
    They added it a few years back

eikenberry 5mo ago

The difficult thing with Linux has always been finding well supported hardware. People always try to get it running on whatever random collection of hardware they have on hand and then are surprised that they have some problems. If you buy with Linux in mind you can get hardware that just works.

nine_k 5mo ago

I'm likely not "most Linux ricers", but as a long-term desktop Linux user, I'm very bothered when I have to use macOS GUI, and explicitly want a non-macOS experience. (This is why I avoid Gnome, for instance.)

ezst 5mo ago

> MacOS by far has the least bugs and kinda just works. MacOS is sometimes so weird and inconsistent that it's hard to tell whether it's a bug of Apple usual's "you are not smart/cool-enough to understand" kind of feature.

apatheticonion 5mo ago

I agree that MacOS is more polished. However overall, Linux is a better complete package - especially for power users, gamers and engineers. Linux GUIs are _fine enough_ though the jank is still present. The good news is they will get better with more users entering the chat. The thing to note is that, we don't want to confuse "it's not as good right now" with "It's bad so I will never use it" because that signals a lack of interest. There is a non-zero chance that Apple could be compelled to support it if enough people express interest (historically, they have with bootcamp). Competition is good, even if the competition is bad right now. We must encourage it.